Tower 7 also contained offices of the FBI, Department of Defense, IRS (which contained prodigious amounts of corporate tax fraud corporate, including Enron’s), US Secret Service, Securities & Exchange Commission (with more stock fraud records), and Citibank’s Salomon Smith Barney, the Mayor’s Office of Emergency Management and many other financial institutions.
And he says it even though he has full knowledge of the thousands of Americans Bush has sent to their deaths in Iraq and Afganistan. Baffling is the right word.
Well, of course I see the distinction.
I do not want to wander too far into this and become mired in a debate I do not wish to have with people. So I think it would be safe to say that government officials may have been involved. But I do not wish to go much further into this as it is like being caught in a spider’s web when the so called “other side” grabs hold and drains the life out of you with questions.
I wish to steer the debate in the direction of the most damning pieces of evidence that Dr. Jones has discovered to date. That is his discovery of thermite residue in dust collected from the towers. Talking about whether or not government officials had a stake in killing 3,000 people (a drop in the bucket to them, btw), is not relevant until having established what exactly happened to the buildings in the first place. After all, I’m relatively certain that physics is not a subset of praxeology.
This is why it is so important to establish what exactly happened to the buildings before we go pointing fingers at suspected perps.
But most of establishing what happend to the buildings is impossible. The fire burned from 9/11 until February 2002 that destroyed alot of evidence as to how exactly they collapsed but we do know why they collapsed and that was because airplanes flew into them. Picture if I was shot by a man with a gun, died and then was cremated. I few months later someone who did not witness my shooting finds a post on an online forum somewhere that I made where I complained about a heart condition. One could speculate that perhaps the bullet was just incidental and I really died of a heart attack. Years later people might come to believe I was really killed by bacon and cigarettes and maybe due to this “evidence” my killer would be free of blame.
In violent situations a lot of stuff happens. Hard to explain unless you see it…but piecing it together after the fact is difficult. That is why soldiers go missing during combat. Something logical happend to them but we just don’t know exactly what it was and where it caused them to go. So I will prefer to focus on the violence rather than the mechanics as the way to best find the truth of what happend that day.
There is a very good reason why thermite might be found in the wreckage of the towers. And it does not involve conspiracy.
Airplane fuselages are made of mainly aluminum, are they not. And buildings contain much iron. Slam an aluminum plane into an iron building under high heat and fire and you get…VOILA…THERMITE.[:D]
Just a case of overlooking the obvious explanation in a quest for conspiracy.[:)]
About 7 WTC. It had 42,000 gallons of diesel in it. 6,000 on the 23rd floor and 36,000 in the lower floors. I work in a building that has a similar set up. The upper level fuel storage is used because pumps cannot get to the fuel in the lower levels if the power fails.
Imagine a warehouse explodes. Due to the damage an investigation into the reasons for its explosion is inconclusive, but it is mentioned that a building next to the warehouse was on fire and the warehouse stored TNT. If we read the next day in the paper “WAREHOUSE MYSTERIOUSLY EXPLODES” we would think the reporters may have missed some crucial information.
You’re all so comical. It doesn’t even make sense to use thermite for CD, hence why those who actually execute CD never use thermite. Thermite slowly melts away horizontal steel beams. It would simply flow by vertical columns. It’s most commonly use for something like welding. You’re all so damn eager to latch on to any theory claiming there was something more that you forget to scrutinize what you’re looking at. I pity your paranoia.
I don’t doubt the US Government’s intention to plan things like Operation Northwoods and other things that harm its citizens. But as an anarchist I do doubt the government’s ability to be so thorough, smart and calculating as to pull the job off.
It is often claimed that the government is too stupid to pull off anything as sophisticated as a 9/11. It seems to be the most compelling of the arguments against government conspiracy. But consider the institution of the federal reserve. It is the result of the work of private bankers, some professional propagandists, public opinion molders, media cooperation, and yes, government collusion. Surely no one here doubts the huge magnitude of the fraud pulled on the world when the federal reserve was instituted. And yet here it is and remains, as busy as ever, nearly 100 years later.
When i think of WTC7 tower falling perfectly on its footprint at free-fall speed, it gives me insight into the insight that the powers that be have into the thought process of the masses. They do not believe in blatant and colossal crimes committed by their own state in collusion with private interests, until the establishment media tells them it is ok to believe in them. And so, despite the video, the lack of a plane crashing into the building, despite it collapsing entirely in the appearance of a planned demolition. People cannot come to grips with, yes the extremely high likelihood that it was a planned demolition requiring some state collusion.
They could have taken down ten buildings that day, and as long as the papers and tv news remained quiet about the implications, people would presume it was all explained in the 9/11 report and popular mechanics. The human mind is something else. All this explains the success of democracy, and of the Soviet Gulags. People can accept and live in a mass delusion as long as they are told it’s alright to, and no one in authority questions it.
But the Federal Reserve’s establishment is documented. Their proceedures to the swindle are outlined and I would bet that many people don’t think it is even a swindle but view it as benificial. There is not a dispute with 9/11 in that we know things fell down and people died. Just as there is not a dispute that the Federal Reserve sets interest rates and prints money. There is also not a dispute as to who was involved in founding the Fed, who sets rates now…its all there for dissemination.
If someone were to claim in spite of the evidence that nineteen Arabs set borrowing and lending rates then maybe it would be a better comparison.
One thing that 9/11 did create is a lot of arm-chair crash forensics and structural engineers. Large buildings in NYC are designed to fall into their own footprint (the newer ones) because long term planning for tight spaces requires it. The fact that 1 WTC and 7 WTC fell into their own footprints is really a credit to the architects more than it is suspicous behaviour.
Don’t even attempt to persuade them anymore; nothing we say will matter regardless of how obvious, factually sound, or logically sound it may be. They’ve got it permanently ingrained in their head that it was an inside job and nothing can be done to change that. It’s like trying to argue with someone about whether god really exists. It’s an unarguable matter because it can’t be proved nor disproved. For them, it’s on faith and feeling.
I don’t want to regurgitate the mountains of evidence that cast doubt on the government account of events, since it is all available for anyone willing to investigate and open-minded enough to come to their own conclusions. It is interesting, however, that your last comments, if reversed, seem to apply better to your own unquestioning attitudes than those of any other posters on this topic.
There are several layers to “conspiracy theories”:
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Did the government conduct demolition of the three buildings, and no plane actually crashed that day? IMHO, this scenario is quite unlikely simply because the number of people would have been involved, and the unlikelihood that there is no whisle blower after 6+ years.
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Did high officials in the government have fore knowledge, and then went out their way to allow it to happen so there can be “casus belli”? IMHO, this is a highly likely scenario . . . just like Pearl Harbor. Years from now, statist historians will be writing about the policians lied for our own good, just like some of them do now in excusing FDR, if the subsequent policy succeeds. If the subsequent war policies fail, the comparison will be Krystalnacht.
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Was there a conspiracy afterwards to cover up (2) by muddling the water with floating conspiracy theory (1) above? Also quite likely; that’s how I’d do it if I were the president, and nefarious and stupid enough to have committed (2) . . . and there would be plenty useful idiots for that job.
All of it’s been emphatically refuted. I posted many of the links already. You’ve simply ignored them. I’m not surpised.
From the first of your so called ‘refutations’
“we do not know exactly how or why wtc7 fell when it did and we decline to hypothesize here.”
http://www.implosionworld.com/Article-WTC%20STUDY%208-06%20w%20clarif%20as%20of%209-8-06%20.pdf
You indeed bring up an excellent point. [B]
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4186920967571123147
c’mon, you’re so predictable. That section was simply dedicated to debunking the notion that it wasn’t possible for wtc 7 to collapse as a result of the debri damage and consequential fire caused by the other explosions. They’re simply saying it’s not their place to hypothesize the specific evolution of the how the building collapsed. Popular mechanics has in fact done this and sufficiently so. But wait!!! They may be on the government payroll.
Hey you know what I heard? Steve Jones has been getting paid by the Russians to create a conspiracy theory!!!
Funny you should say that (I assume you mean Alex Jones of Prison Planet and not Steve Jones of the Sex Pistols). According to the Mitrokhin archives (KGB defector) From 1960 to 1964 the KGB gave $70,000 to the New York based pro-Soviet publisher called “The Liberty Book Club” . The publisher was Italian born communist Carl Aldo Marzani. The reason for this was to publish the pro-Soviet perspective in the USA. In March of 1964 a writer called Joachim Joestern wrote the first book on the JFK assassination called Oswald: Assassin or Fall Guy and Marzani was the publisher. This was done to divert attention from Oswald the communist who defected to Minsk and married a KGB Colonel’s daughter to a “right wing conspiracy” orchestrated by oil magnate H.L. Hunt. The KGB also gave Mark Lane $1500 to help with his research into the JFK assassination.
But the archives don’t mention Oswald as being one of theirs. They just mention him as a risk to Soviet credibility if the US started to believe the hit was ordered from Moscow.