A Left Libertarian Manifesto.

[liberty_student]

@Scott F

I don’t disagree so what are you talking about. They are moral only inso far as they are voluntary- only in that respect- but CAN be immoral in other respects.

What are the other respects?

@Scott F

True yet your irritating.

Being asked to explain yourself when you cannot surely is irritating.

@Scott F

Show how this is marxist or hegelian methodology.

Let’s try this a different way. What methodology are you using to reach your conclusions? What framework for human action?

@Scott F

Well I don’t have a quick definition to hand as of now. I guess I’d say it concerns the proper relations between humans (and to some extent non humans)

So you’re arguing morality with me, without a definition of morality. Irritated I brought that up? Want to call me a monkey again?

What are “proper relations” between humans? Proper as decided by who? You? The Church? My dad?

@Scott F

“Who decides this?”

human beings who think.who reason.Who care about morality. What the hell are you on about? are you not a human being?

I am a human being, and yet if I pay someone to hit me with a stick, you claim I am incapable of caring about morality.

So am I a human being or not? Do I stop being a human being when I engage in particular activities, ones you do not like? Do you get to decide who is and is not human? By what authority?

@Scott F

" You’re avoiding answering what is wrong about someone making particular lifestyle or relationship choices."

I haven’t.I’ve said it depends on the case and is complex.What we seem to be talking about though is treating people as less than human i.e. dehumanization of which aggression is a subset.

What case? You claim it is complex, but how can you make claims about it, if it is complex and you can’t explain your method?

If I want to be tied up, or have rough sex what business is it of yours?

@Scott F

“Isn’t you claiming to decide for me, the very definition of authoritarianism?”

I’m not controlling you to make you do what I want.I’m just having a belief and expressing it.Nothing authoritarian about it.

So you’re not making moral claims, you’re just expressing a subjective preference. In other words, things you don’t like, aren’t actually “wrong” they are just distasteful to you. Left-libertarianism is a perspective about what is aesthetically acceptable. Correct?

@Scott F

As a thick libertarian I consider both.Furthermore it helps clarify.

But I am not talking about legality. I am only talking about morality, and your introducing it creates a false dichotomy.

@Scott F

“It is my body, my life. How can you say that what I do with my own body is not moral?”

Well then your on to arguing about ethics in general.

What are you talking about? You just claimed I can be immoral with my own body, and now you claim its ethics? Which is it?

@Scott F

" What moral crime can I commit against myself?"

Plenty.

Are you seriously saying that I can commit a crime against myself?

@Scott F

“What is the moral standard you are employing? How do you justify it?”

a complex related mix of Natural law, virtue ethics,consequentialism,enlightened self interest , the golden rule and Eudaimoniaism

Yes, a bunch of sloganeering. So complicated, you can’t articulate it, it is so complicated.

You can tell us all about what is right and wrong, you just can’t tell us how you drew any of those conclusions. Which makes your “philosophy” nothing more than an expression of your own values (or those you copy from other people) rather than some systematic way of determining moral action.

Guess what Scott. There is no such thing as “thin libertarianism’”. My thin libertarianism is much thicker than yours, because it incorporates what I believe to be the highest value necessary for voluntarism.

Tolerance.