Agorism activity

Geoffrey, saying there are no criticism worthy, and labelling others “pricks” when you are the one who has tried to undermine ML’s credibility and question his motivation, by repeatedly bringing up the Liberty Colony (which is offtopic to the discussion) doesn’t show well for you as being sincere.

This is a big thread. An important thread. It’s a challenge to Agorism that no one has been able to answer thus far. It probably pisses a few people, who fashioned themselves as men of letters, who would work toward global liberty after they were dead, to find out their passive scheme has some serious flaws in it.

It would be nice, if you are going to label others “pricks” that you limit your participation to the subject at hand, or if it is not worthy, limiting your use of Ad Hom against those who are questioning Agorism.

I’ve probably been rude to you, but I don’t think ML has if my memory serves me right. You’ve treated him badly, for no other reason I can ascertain than he is a vulgar libertarian who showed the cracks in the foundation of Agorism, the great hope of left-libertarianism.

The Liberty Colony is not off-topic. It is very much related to this debate. It’s very relevant that the criticisms he levels at agorism apply to his own project. And Max has been rude in general from the get-go. He’s been treated the way he deserves. That said, the criticisms against agorism are weak. What’s more, there’s no reason why some libertarians can’t undertake projects like the Liberty Colony while others pursue agorism. Walk the walk.

~removed~

Time to move on.

You have a knack for this kind of rhetorical nonsense, but sorry…it doesn’t fly. I know you can see the difference between quick, incisive debunkings of sophistry and detailed scholarly responses. The former don’t take much time and I have done them. The latter take a lot of time but I don’t see the need for them. Nor do I think Max deserves them as yet. Perhaps if shows some success with his project and behaves more civilly…

Max has been rude long before I got involved. Anybody can go look at his posts and see it. They can do so and decide for themselves. (Just click on his profile and follow the links.)

The labels fit, but I have not relied upon ad honinem to carry my criticism of his criticisms and his project. I’ve pointed out some of their relevant weaknesses, concisely and effectively. The LC is on topic, however much you want to keep it protected from criticism, and I’ve pointed out why. But you’ve ignored all of this to continue with your dodging and deflecting.

Libby, the challenges have been answered over and over again. Either you’re too thick to understand or you’re simply in such a cum coma with Jimmy that you want to hide your head in his arse.

This thread was started as an opportunity for the agorists to respond to the obvious flaws in agorism as pointed out by myself. The agorists have failed. Any objective reader of this thread understands that agorists can not answer the most basic questions about Agorism and have resorted to either trying to attack me personally or they bring up the Liberty Colony as a defense of Agorism. Library Libertarians like yourself sit on the sideline afraid to debate the subject and say that I haven’t provided any meaningful criticism of your failed agorism. I have absolutely dismantled the agorists in this thread. I challenge you to a new thread and an open debate on the subject. What really bothers you and the other Library Libertarians is when your exposed as intellectual do nothings.

If you really believe agorism is the superior strategy then maybe you should spend some time defending it. The real reason you don’t defend it is because you are probably smart enough to realize it can’t be defended with logic and evidence in the real world.

[8-)]

I understand. The agorists will overthrow the state by filling the state’s prisons with agorists, thus bankrupting it.

Yeah, right, you keep telling yourself that nonsense… Your every post just adds further confirmation to my points.

x2

But does it really matter what a crazy person thinks anyways?

Just go back to the Austrian forum.

About as much as a teenager working on his state education, and living off of someone else’s labour.

Apparently, families are abolished in Libby’s world. [8-)]

Not at all. It’s just that you have a habit of criticizing grown men who support their own families, when you have absolutely no experience with that reality. It’s easy to talk big, when you don’t have to do the heavy lifting.

You’re a grown “man”?

Lol.

I think the Liberty Colony and agorism are dead ends. They’re both basically trying to demonstrate what is basically right to a corrupt culture that has told them that such possibilities are like the wolves at the door.

The corporations will take over, the poor will starve to death, all the animals will go extinct, health care and the roads will disappear, the DROs will become like a government, no one will be educated, everyone but CEOs will earn .01 cent an hour, pollution, Mexicans, meth addictions, terror, Chomsky said something about “hate” and Rothbardian police force monopolies for the rich, the proletarian class consciousness won’t be pleased, the bourgeois class consciousness would be very pleased, central banks need to control business cycles, global warming, etc.

So there.

I have not seen you address any of the gigantic contradictions in agorism to date. Why don’t you just try answering the simple questions that I and anybody else would ask of agorism. This is a place to discuss ideas so respond to the simple questions and contradictions that are apparent in agorism.

Unlike you I am interested in results. Agorist strategy by it’s own contradictions can’t produce the society that you advocate it will. I have demonstrated that in this thread and you and your fellow agorists have failed to explain the contradictions. So once again lets’s debate and I will take my simple education against your great mind and we can see who comes out the winner.

And what is it you propose to do?

Funny, it would seem to be the exact opposite.

I have not been around this forum for quite some time - used to post quite a bit, but the rants and raves and the adolescent attempts to prove one was smarter than the other (in which I all too frequently engaged, truth be told), often at the expense of the important topic under discussion, drove me off.

Recently, in my wanderings, I had occasion to read through Konkin’s work (NLM). Also recently, had occasion to post some stuff here. While here, happily, I ran across this agorism thread, and, as Konkin’s work had been thought provoking, I thought I’d see what everyone had to say. I was looking for information. What I found more closely resembled an elementary school food fight than a substantive discourse. That has continued up to the more recent posts.

So I started with no preconceived notions, and no position on any of this (had never heard of the Libetry Colony for example) short of some interest in, and lots of agreement with, what Konin had to say. Definitely had some skepticism as to its potential efficacy, however. This thread SHOULD have provided info to address my concerns, given me various perspectives on agorism, etc. Unfortunately, I know no more now than I did upon my first read.

But the point is - I came at this without being on one “side” or another - I am on liberty’s side and unutterably opposed to the State. That’s the only side that it makes ANY sense for a thinking man to be on, IMO.

Now, you say Max ‘storms into these forums bashing alternatives to his Liberty Colony idea’ - my reading of THIS thread (I can only speak to this one) is that it was the pro-agorist camp - somebody named MacFall - who brought up the Liberty Colony and began ridiculing it, with Niccolo and others (not yourself at that stage) gleefully jumping on that particular bandwagon, tee-hee, tee-hee. It was like a bad memory from junior high school. Stupid juvenile bullsh*t.

Max and some others were asking what appear to be legitimate questions and which were in fact inline with the questions I developed reading Konkin’s work, and were making assertions and challenges. That is, they were NOT “bashing” agorism (though from a confirmed agorist’s point of view, it may subjectively have FELT like that) rather they were CHALLENGING it.

A PhD candidate above all - and I am well aware of the significance of this status - must understand the difference between bashing and challenging, and between childish responses and adult ones. In the adult world, when someone acts childishly, you do not descend upon the instant to that level and ‘fight fire with fire’. You maintain an adult bearing, and respond as an adult. If, that is, you are a serious person worthy of regard.

If, when one’s ideas are under challenge, one feels the need to instantly devolve into schoolboyish name calling and ridiculing - make no mistake, this is precisely what occurred here - this undermines the perception of those ideas, which is often for all practical purposes the same as undermining the ideas themselves.

In other words, from where I sit - and I continue to hold myself out as an objective and thoughtful observer - agorism is being tainted by this sort of treatment. It deserves better from its adherents than this, IMO.

Here’s a suggestion: collect the questions being asked about agorism by Max and others and create a new thread which posts the answers explicitly. That way, you can stop saying they’ve been answered already, and he can stop saying they haven’t, which activity at least appears to consume the majority of communication in this thread. I sure as hell have seen precious few actual answers in this thread, although innumerable posts have said those answers have been made.