Are most Libertarians really Libertarian?

[gotlucky]

It can be very difficult to see the libertarian principles in some situations. I see that you are refrencing the Zionism/Libertarian thread. There was one person mentioning that the authoritarianism in North Korea is an internal matter that only affects Koreans, so it’s different from the Israel/Palestine situation. I understand where he is coming from, but I disagree with that. I do not care to what culture/ethnicity/religion/group someone feels they belong to - they have a right to not be aggressed against by the state or any other individual. Whether it is the North Korean state against the North Korean people, the Israeli state against the Israelis, the Israeli state against the Palestinians, Hamas against Palestinians, Hamas against Israelis, or the American government against etc. You get the point.

I feel that many people in that thread missed the point. There has been aggression by many individuals in that situation. Saying that Zionists stole the land is to generalize about all Zionists, and there were many who purchased land legitimately, even if there were more (I don’t know the percentages) who may have used violence instead. To say that the Jews (because when we say Israeli, we really don’t mean Israeli Arabs) stole the land of the Palestinians is to do a very un-libertarian thing. Just as it is un-libertarian to generalize that the Palestinians want to kill all the Jews etc.

As a libertarian, I cannot support either Hamas or the Israeli state. When governments are at war with each other, I really cannot side with either one. The people under the state may or may not support warring with each other, but it is ultimately the individuals in the state that do the warring. That being said, governments can be less evil than other governments. Then it depends on your own criteria on how evil you think a government might be.

I’m going to step away from talking about that thread any more.

So the question I have is “what is really to be a libertarian?”

Is it enough to believe in libertarian principles but not necessarily to act according to those principles? Or one has to live and practice libertarian principles to be really considered a libertarian?

Your actions reflect your beliefs.

Okay I lied, I want to bring up a quote from the Israel/Palestine thread:

@JB Say

You say: “I never said that or implied it. Palestinians, like all people, deserve peace and freedom, but they can’t have that because most of their population support setting up islamic laws”

If a majority of Palestinians want to follow Islamic law they should be allowed to do so as long as they don’t try to impose it on others. But where’s the proof that most of Palestinians favor an Islamic state?

You say: “I highly doubt that there are any arabs in the area that support anything secular”

Again where is the proof? Arab protesters throughout the Middle East are asking for more freedom and democracy not an Islamic state.

This, in my mind, is most certainly not a libertarian viewpoint. The idea that if a majority of Palestinians want to follow Islamic law that they should be allowed to so long as they don’t impose it on others is wrong. That is tyranny of the majority. I don’t care if they would only do it to themselves and not Jews, it is still wrong and not libertarian. To be fair, you did state that you don’t think it would be the case, but that you are okay with it disturbs me.

The viewpoint of majority rules is not a viewpoint I would expect from a libertarian.