What if later science contradicts those findings due to technological & empirical advancements ? I would point to the Kardashev Scale has giving a possible scenario where a higher type civilization might surpass such current laws due to advancements.
I do agree that the ‘idea’ of “god” seems to exist; as of late, I’m viewing god more and more as a memetic phenomena.
I think I need to rephrase what I was saying. Proof in a creator does not lead nessasairily to christianity. It does not show the reason behind WHY God acts. Only that he has acted and presumably will act in the future (the “presumption” is based on man’s limitation with reguards to four dimensional observation). God’s existance can be theoretically proven, God’s word, however, is another matter.
Actually, banned, it’s all the same, if thought out deeply enough.
What you’re describing is flawed humans’ tendency to not consider things intensely enough.
Existence has an unavoidable morality built into it.
The good news is that libertarianism is true. It is true in the most fundamental sense imaginable: i.e., existence itself would not be possible without it. That is not hyperbole in the slightest, but rather is a quite veridical statement.
It seems hard for most to imagine how existence itself could be predicated upon a “mere” political theory (even a veridical political theory, namely, libertarianism). But nevertheless, reality violates almost everyone’s “common sense” understanding of the world. Reality is quite unforgiving in this regard, and it shows respect to no title or institution, unless of course they already happen to be in comformance with it, which is utterly rare.
But what physics demonstrates is that there is an ultimate speed-limit, i.e., the speed of light. Hence, if colonization of the universe is to occur (and it must occur if life is to continue), then this necessarily ensures that decentralization in control of resources cannot be avoided.
That is to say, there cannot even in theory be a centralized “univeral governament.” Indeed, each relativistic spacecraft (massing no more than a kilogram) will be its own automomous unit with its own society. It will not be possible, even in theory, for any member of the originating society to catch up with it. Only during the collapse phase of the universe, trillions upon trillons of years hence, will all points in the universe proceed to converge.
Thus, each autonomous society (and there will be trillions upon trillions of them) will have trillions upon trillions of years of autonomous existence in which to develop their own societies. Those societies which are the most efficient at taking over resources will be the ones which take control over the universe’s resources (and veridical economics demonstrates that this will be the freest of economies[1]).
How that relates to libertarianism being inherently required by existence itself is thus: the end-state of the universe causally brings about the beginning state, i.e., the Big Bang singularity–since in physics it’s just as accurate to say that causation goes from future to past events: viz, the principle of least action; and unitarity.
For more on what I spoke of in the above, see:
“God Proven to Exist According to Mainline Physics,” TetrahedronOmega, May 5, 2008 http://www.armleg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=122&mforum=libertyandtruth
Note:
It may be protested further that the interstellar colonizers maintain their expansion at a rate in which to allow communication with each other. But then there exists no enforcement mechanism for this, for those spacecraft which choose to travel faster would be impune. No member of the originating society would be able to catch up with it.
One may object by positing that said spacecraft are intentionally built to have an upper speed limit enough to allow non-crippled spacecraft to catch up with them. But if such spacecraft are to actually colonize, then they must have on board universal constructors, i.e., they must be von Neumann machines, capable of assembling whatever is capable of being assebled (i.e., given that point in universal history).
(Humans, by the way, are universal constructors. That is to say, we are able to construct anything which is capable of being constructed. More accurately: we are able to construct machines which are able to contruct what we desire, of which machines are in turn able to construct the machines in which to construct what we desire even more, and so on, literally ad infinitum. In Austrian economics [i.e., veridical economics], this is called lengthening the structure of production.)
Hence, any such spacecraft must already have the means in which to build a better spacecraft (up to the point of what is physically possible), otherwise they could not be actual colonizers, and hence would be useless for interstellar colonization.
The Bible on capitalism:
Proverbs 21:20 - [In Context|Original Hebrew]There is treasure to be desired and oil in the dwelling of the wise; but a foolish man spendeth it up.
[/quote]
The Bible on politics:
The Bible on self-interest:
The Bible on war:
The Bible on non-interventionism:
The Bible on confiscation of private property:
The Bible on slavery:
The Bible on statism:
So uhm, if physics has proved the existence of god, I imagine they have overcome the various logical contradictions?
You know, like if god created the universe, what created god, etc. Do they have an answer to that with any substance (non-theological susbtance)?
Hi, Fred Furash. Yes, to answer your question: God is all that exists and has ever existed.
If you don’t think that’s an adequate answer to your question, then you haven’t thought about the matter hard enough.
That is to say, there is nothing outside of God. God is the totality of existence, forever and all times. Anything that exists is God.
But I see what you’re getting at in your question. You’re asking what created God.
The answer to that question is that you created God.
And God created you.
And so on and so on.
That all is to say: everything that exists is God. It always has been and always will be.
That may seem adverse to obtaining our desired answer. And quite possibly it is.
So we are left with asking ourselves what do we really mean when we ask these questions?
In effect, we’re trying to find out why anything exists as opposed to nothing existing.
The reason that something exists as opposed to nothing existing is because once something exists it necessarily requires structure. Yet nothingness contains within itself all possibility.
I’m not sure if that answer will satisfy everyone. But nevertheless it is true.
Seems like an illogical cop-out.
Hi, Brainpolice.
The question under discussion is why anything exists as opposed to nothing existing.
My answer is that existence has always existed, and hence always will exist.
If that’s a cop-out, then please provide your answer to existence’s existence.
I’m not sure I can take this topic seriously anymore.
Amos 8
4 ¶ Hear this, O ye that swallow up the needy, even to make the poor of the land to fail,
5 Saying, When will the new moon be gone, that we may sell corn? and the sabbath, that we may set forth wheat, making the ephah small, and the shekel great, and falsifying the balances by deceit?
6 That we may buy the poor for silver, and the needy for a pair of shoes; yea, and sell the refuse of the wheat?
7 The LORD hath sworn by the excellency of Jacob, Surely I will never forget any of their works.
Proverbs 1
10 ¶ My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.
11 If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause:
12 Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:
13 We shall find all precious substance, we shall fill our houses with spoil:
14 Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse:
15 My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain thy foot from their path:
16 For their feet run to evil, and make haste to shed blood.
17 Surely in vain the net is spread in the sight of any bird.
18 And they lay wait for their own blood; they lurk privily for their own lives.
19 So are the ways of every one that is greedy of gain; which taketh away the life of the owners thereof.
Job 24
2 Some remove the landmarks; they violently take away flocks, and feed thereof.
3 They drive away the ass of the fatherless, they take the widow’s ox for a pledge.
4 They turn the needy out of the way: the poor of the earth hide themselves together.
Deuteronomy 19, 27
14 ¶ Thou shalt not remove thy neighbour’s landmark, which they of old time have set in thine inheritance, which thou shalt inherit in the land that the LORD thy God giveth thee to possess it.
17 Cursed be he that removeth his neighbour’s landmark. And all the people shall say, Amen.
Proverbs 22, 23
28 ¶ Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set.
10 ¶ Remove not the old landmark; and enter not into the fields of the fatherless:
11 For their redeemer is mighty; he shall plead their cause with thee.
Jeremiah 32
7 Behold, Hanameel the son of Shallum thine uncle shall come unto thee, saying, Buy thee my field that is in Anathoth: for the right of redemption is thine to buy it.
8 So Hanameel mine uncle’s son came to me in the court of the prison according to the word of the LORD, and said unto me, Buy my field, I pray thee, that is in Anathoth, which is in the country of Benjamin: for the right of inheritance is thine, and the redemption is thine; buy it for thyself. Then I knew that this was the word of the LORD.
9 And I bought the field of Hanameel my uncle’s son, that was in Anathoth, and weighed him the money, even seventeen shekels of silver.
10 And I subscribed the evidence, and sealed it, and took witnesses, and weighed him the money in the balances.
11 So I took the evidence of the purchase, both that which was sealed according to the law and custom, and that which was open:
12 And I gave the evidence of the purchase unto Baruch the son of Neriah, the son of Maaseiah, in the sight of Hanameel mine uncle’s son, and in the presence of the witnesses that subscribed the book of the purchase, before all the Jews that sat in the court of the prison.
13 And I charged Baruch before them, saying,
14 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Take these evidences, this evidence of the purchase, both which is sealed, and this evidence which is open; and put them in an earthen vessel, that they may continue many days.
15 For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Houses and fields and vineyards shall be possessed again in this land.
16 ¶ Now when I had delivered the evidence of the purchase unto Baruch the son of Neriah, I prayed unto the LORD, saying,
17 Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee:
18 Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD of hosts, is his name,
19 Great in counsel, and mighty in work: for thine eyes are open upon all the ways of the sons of men: to give every one according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings:
25 And thou hast said unto me, O Lord GOD, Buy thee the field for money, and take witnesses; for the city is given into the hand of the Chaldeans.
26 ¶ Then came the word of the LORD unto Jeremiah, saying,
27 Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?
43 And fields shall be bought in this land, whereof ye say, It is desolate without man or beast; it is given into the hand of the Chaldeans.
44 Men shall buy fields for money, and subscribe evidences, and seal them, and take witnesses in the land of Benjamin, and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, and in the cities of the mountains, and in the cities of the valley, and in the cities of the south: for I will cause their captivity to return, saith the LORD.
Ecclesiastes 6
1 ¶ There is an evil which I have seen under the sun, and it is common among men:
2 A man to whom God hath given riches, wealth, and honour, so that he wanteth nothing for his soul of all that he desireth, yet God giveth him not power to eat thereof, but a stranger eateth it: this is vanity, and it is an evil disease.
And more on the way.
Genesis 23
1 ¶ And Sarah was an hundred and seven and twenty years old: these were the years of the life of Sarah.
2 And Sarah died in Kirjatharba; the same is Hebron in the land of Canaan: and Abraham came to mourn for Sarah, and to weep for her.
3 ¶ And Abraham stood up from before his dead, and spake unto the sons of Heth, saying,
4 I am a stranger and a sojourner with you: give me a possession of a buryingplace with you, that I may bury my dead out of my sight.
5 And the children of Heth answered Abraham, saying unto him,
6 Hear us, my lord: thou art a mighty prince among us: in the choice of our sepulchres bury thy dead; none of us shall withhold from thee his sepulchre, but that thou mayest bury thy dead.
7 And Abraham stood up, and bowed himself to the people of the land, even to the children of Heth.
8 And he communed with them, saying, If it be your mind that I should bury my dead out of my sight; hear me, and intreat for me to Ephron the son of Zohar,
9 That he may give me the cave of Machpelah, which he hath, which is in the end of his field; for as much money as it is worth he shall give it me for a possession of a buryingplace amongst you.
10 And Ephron dwelt among the children of Heth: and Ephron the Hittite answered Abraham in the audience of the children of Heth, even of all that went in at the gate of his city, saying,
11 Nay, my lord, hear me: the field give I thee, and the cave that is therein, I give it thee; in the presence of the sons of my people give I it thee: bury thy dead.
12 And Abraham bowed down himself before the people of the land.
13 And he spake unto Ephron in the audience of the people of the land, saying, But if thou wilt give it, I pray thee, hear me: I will give thee money for the field; take it of me, and I will bury my dead there.
14 And Ephron answered Abraham, saying unto him,
15 My lord, hearken unto me: the land is worth four hundred shekels of silver; what is that betwixt me and thee? bury therefore thy dead.
16 ¶ And Abraham hearkened unto Ephron; and Abraham weighed to Ephron the silver, which he had named in the audience of the sons of Heth, four hundred shekels of silver, current money with the merchant.
17 And the field of Ephron, which was in Machpelah, which was before Mamre, the field, and the cave which was therein, and all the trees that were in the field, that were in all the borders round about, were made sure
Nu 18:16 And those that are to be redeemed from a month old shalt thou redeem, according to thine estimation, for the money of five shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary, which is twenty gerahs.
Le 19
35 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment, in meteyard, in weight, or in measure.
36 Just balances, just weights, a just ephah, and a just hin, shall ye have: I am the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt.
Eze 45
10 Ye shall have just balances, and a just ephah, and a just bath.
11 The ephah and the bath shall be of one measure, that the bath may contain the tenth part of an homer, and the ephah the tenth part of an homer: the measure thereof shall be after the homer.
Haggai 1
5 Now therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways.
6 Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but ye have not enough; ye drink, but ye are not filled with drink; ye clothe you, but there is none warm; and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes.
12 And the shekel shall be twenty gerahs: twenty shekels, five and twenty shekels, fifteen shekels, shall be your maneh.
Micah 6
9 ¶ The LORD’S voice crieth unto the city, and the man of wisdom shall see thy name: hear ye the rod, and who hath appointed it.
10 Are there yet the treasures of wickedness in the house of the wicked, and the scant measure that is abominable?
11 Shall I count them pure with the wicked balances, and with the bag of deceitful weights?
More on the way but---------- when I have time to.