I have read every single post in this entire thread. I know full well that private roads exist, tens of thousands of them and in countries where the vast majority of roads are state owned. I also have learned that it needs a special set of circumstances for them to exist, and without those set of circumstances in place then they don’t appear to exist. And nobody here has found a single example of a private road anywhere on earth that exists without that special set of circumstances. Maybe its you that needs to “spend ten to fifteen minutes” going through the posts to realize that what I’ve said is true. We’ve gone through it all in a lot of detail.
“A special set of circumstances” is just a fancy way of saying “demand.” If there is little or no demand for roads (or water mains, or whatever other government monopoly you want to talk about), businesses won’t invest time and money to develop them. Just because we have a huge number of densely-packed roads, and just because we have a sole provider of piped water, does not mean that more efficient operations don’t, won’t, or can’t exist. Examples are scarce because governments force them to be (whether there’s demand, like filc asserts, or not)… the soundness of the argument rests upon the logic inherent in it: if consumers want something, businesses will find a way to provide this something, including working together if it’s in their mutual interests.
No roads exist that are 1 mile wide, in a town with a population of more than 4 billion, and made out of marble. Oh noez!!! Marketz eekwelz phayel!!!
Someone else made effectively the same argument many pages ago - I refuted it then. I can not be bothered to repeat myself.
I don’t think it is. This argument will get very confused indeed if I let that assertion pass. Have you read the entire thread?
Suffice to say, there is no barrier so imposing that a business wouldn’t attempt to overcome if they saw profit (as in, revenue above the cost of overcoming said barrier) on the other side. I’d venture to say that roads and water would both be very profitable, seeing as they’re both incredibly vital to our current way of life—the latter a bit more than the former, of course. Your argument, in essence, is that individuals would not be able to provide for their own transportation nor for their own water, and no business would do it for them, were it not for government forcing them to.
Yes.
Ironic, because I think many other posters here feel the same way about discussing things with you.
Yes, it was you who made effectively the same argument many pages ago, and I refuted it then.
I just came up with the following thought experiment…
Imagine a long street in the center of new york with 5000 houses or flats. Each dwelling is owned by a different person.
Then one day God himself scraped off all the tarmac and replace the entire road with dirt, puddles, trees grass etc. He can calls down to the populous and says “The government is not allowed to pay for, or build a new read here otherwise I will order up some pestilence, famine and floods. The residents can re-build the road if they want to, but the government are not allowed to pressurize them to do so”.
Please tell me what you would expect to see in that “road” five years later. If you think there will be a proper tarmac road then tell me:
A) who built it with what money and who pays for its upkeep.
B) Would they let big heavy lorries drive down their road?
C) Presumably there will be at least some residents that don’t want to pay anything for the road. How they are treated by their neighbors?
This is an impractical living arrangement and would probably never arise on the free market. That many people sharing that much space causes the collective action problem to arise. The free market tends to combat the collective action problem through things like neighborhood associations in suburbs, and renting rather than owning apartments (so the landlord can act on everyone’s behalf).
I know you’re trying to set up the thought experiment in a way that causes no private road to be built, so fine. Just realize this never happens on the free market because the collective action problem has historically been solved time and time again.
Couldn’t tell you. Subjective preferences and whatnot.
Some entrepreneur might be able to overcome the collective action problem some other way. A private company could just build the road and charge a toll.
Maybe. Private roads tend to charge more on a per-axle basis. If the vehicle does more damage to the road, it costs you more so you gotta charge more.
The free rider problem would be overcome through toll collection.
In short, I believe that the toll road is the easiest and most common solution to the collective action problem where roads are concerned. Historically, other things have happened, like the 3-4 richest businesses in town will build the road and donate it to the public since they would benefit so much from the commerce. Bottom line is you can’t really predict what will happen on the free market, i’ve just regurgitated the typical cases from history.
Yes: government acquiescence, usually. So perhaps you should consider that. Finally.
Oh boy…
Ok, now how about something that has some comport with reality.
Surely the whole study of anarchism is a study of how things would work in theory because anarchy has never existed anywhere for any sustained period in the modern world… Actually I’m just guessing there - has it existed for a sustained period somewhere?
Hey guys, I have a question that points out a hole in the free market theory, which is how can the free market deal with God’s wrath?
I’m sure you are wrong there. Certainly in the UK.
Maybe so. But presumably, if you want anarchy, you have to start from where we are.
What is the difference between a landlord “acting on your behalf” and a government?
Are you trying to argue that some market goods are ‘special’ and don’t follow traditional rules of economics? If so than I could see how you came to the conclusion that they are different. However if one lives in a state of reality, A = A. Market goods are market goods and all scarce things follow the same economic laws as anything else.
So they are not entirely different cases at all. You let scale disrupt your understanding of goods.
But you ARE PRETENDING to KNOW what the most effecient means of transporting drinking water is. You’ve passed a judgement that competition would be counter effective to effeciency. Allow me to quote yourself.
So you ARE attempting to be omniscient. YOu ARE pretending to ‘know it all’.
Whats worse is you openly admit to being ignornant on the topic, and are willingly going to continue to be ignorant of the subject. You refuse to read any book about the subject. Instead you somehow feal that you have the authority to make such silly arguments here while remaining in your state of ignorance.
FYI Several pages earlier in this thread I posted a long example for you where third world countries when left unfettered they created their own private water distribution systems. So I ask you again, how can the poorest nations in our world accomplish such a simple service where we cannot?
The reason why I have not cited anything is because it’s a very childish question. Would you ask me to cite the information revealing that gravity exists? Would you deny the existence of gravity untill I cited you that source? Furthermore what’s a source? You need not look for a source to see the proof of my argument demonstrated.
Tell me Mickanomics, does your city provide you it’s water? Does it provide the water because business’s wouldn’t? It is YOU who needs to prove to US that private company’s would willingly neglect such a business endeavor. Not the other way around. The EVIDENCE is quiet apparent in nearly every major city in the United States.
Why not instead of keeping this thread going go read a book on the topic? THere are plenty here available on the mises.org site or the book store.
And that as least has some comport with reality. Your example was simply a cartoon fantasy.
You need government permission to either make a road private or build a private road. I do not know of any 1st or 2nd world country where this isn’t true. Hell–you need government permission to install a pool! What makes you think a road is any different?