can there be a free market and government?

[John_James]

@David B

Force and power are implicitly evil or never acceptable means to any end in this context. But as soon as presented with an idea of self-defense, in the case of bodily harm, we immediately say, well that’s a legitimate use of force. While I agree, it’s also force.

This is why many anarcho-capitalists are more careful with their terms. If you have a problem with Per’s use of the word “force”, just play your definition game that you talked about in the first part of the post and pretend he said “aggression” (as understood as “the initiation of force”).

You’ll notice Adam Kokesh is quite eloquent and precise when he speaks on this subject. Here’s a great example.

The devil is in the details. So, when a purely ideological anarchist, or anarcho-capitalist (like I want to be, but am struggling with) says things like “any involuntary subjection is always comparable to the end of the world.” I’m stuck trying to understand how and who will interpret and arbitrate the inevitable confusions and conflicts that must arise because it’s just not that simple to see the property->owner relationship.

Give some examples of where this relationship is not (or cannot be made to be) easily seen (or at least easily enough), and these conflicts that “must” arise.

I don’t see them being many, or that significant.

acting like states aren’t one type of solution to that problem is ridiculous.

K. Acting like shooting you in the face isn’t a solution for you looking at me funny is ridiculous.

I mean, it solves the problem, does it not?

The only issue I have with states, is the implicit non-compete clause they claim exists.* Someone’s going to stake a claim to be a legitimate user of force. If you want stolen property back, you either suck it up like Gandhi (not a bad idea necessarily), or you or an agent operating on your behalf has to go and get it back.

I would definitely recomment checking out the relevant links at The Ultimate Beginner meta-thread, in particular,

What Libertarianism Is

Courts/Law, Security/Defense (Free Society reading list & threads)

And overall,

Beginner videos (politics)