Capitalist artists

I would rather an artist made what is real, rather than simple representation. The “real” thing in art may not be concrete, observable, or measurable and could be made real by the very creation of the artistic piece.

Let me clarify - my sentence was a bit confusing; I am saying that an artist is always making “what is real” - just as much as everything else is, it can be nothing else. To call something “unreal” would be only “unreal” in terms of liberalism, communism, good, bad, or whatever custom you want. Everything you do is a concrete thing, by the fact that you do it.

Ex: If you call yourself a dancer and than dance - and someone says “that wasn’t real dancing” it becomes a bit dubious. That was a very silly and superficial, and maybe even arguable, example but hopefully you get the picture.

That all said, and assuming no one want to play language games:

You are correct “capitalists” tend not to be as artistically inclined as most other social categories. Even to the point where many liberterian types actually turn their noses down to art / artists. I don’t know if it’s for the reasons you are saying, or if it is just more of a personality thing, or something else. There are probably a few good plausible explainations out there - yours being one of them.

I would tend to associate it with more of a “practical” vs “unpractical” type of thing (what type of “thing” I am talking about; social, mental, peronal, economic, philisophical, etc I don’t know) just off the top of my head; which may be related to what you are getting at, but this stuff becomes really hard to think or talk about.

There is also Glenn Jacobs, better known as the (former) pro wrestler Kane.

When your philosophical influences are concerned with concrete things, then you tend not to be an artist. Instead you do write an essay or make a documentary.

Also there is a strong left wing tradition to only care about "the concrete - Feuerbach and Marx being the two biggies. Correct me on this if I am wrong (as I am far from an expert on these people); but I don’t think Chomsky, Kropotkin, Bakunin, or Hilferding were much on anything but “the concrete”. I am not saying they were right or wrong, just that left wing tradition still has a tradition of hating the “abstract”…and it still produces better artists.

Likewise, I would say many artists hate “the abstract”. To me it is associated with either a self proclaimed avant garde class or hipster Trustifarians. In either case it seems to have a correlation with creating esoteric circles to distance people away from “others”. And if you have ever had any experience with these people perhaps your experience was the same as mine - people who are many times more vicious and stifiling than the bourgoise.

Either way; my main point is that I don’t think concrete is a good word to use. Practical and utilitarian maybe, or perhaps even expressive…or best yet maybe even, in some sense, obsucre (don’t let this word distract you tfrom my over all point, I can’t tell it’is the best or worst word I used to communicate my idea).

It seems like we pretty much agree, and I thought the dancing example was pretty apt.

"Also there is a strong left wing tradition to only care about “the concrete - Feuerbach and Marx being the two biggies. Correct me on this if I am wrong (as I am far from an expert on these people); but I don’t think Chomsky, Kropotkin, Bakunin, or Hilferding were much on anything but “the concrete”. I am not saying they were right or wrong, just that left wing tradition still has a tradition of hating the “abstract”…and it still produces better artists.”

No doubt about that, but as far as the 20th and 21st century goes, the left has embraced Freud, Lacan, Foucault, Derrida, and a host of other philosophers. Like I said (I think in this thread) the USSR was promoting realism in the 20’s and 30’s, and proclaiming modernism, those approaching the crisis of representation, art concerned with the “bourgeoisie crisis.” I could just as easily tear into materialist leftists for much of the same reasons I’ve outlined here. It’s another reason I’ve limited my criticism to “anglo-libertarianism,” rather than the right or libertarianism in general.

“Likewise, I would say many artists hate “the abstract”. To me it is associated with either a self proclaimed avant garde class or hipster Trustifarians. In either case it seems to have a correlation with creating esoteric circles to distance people away from “others”. And if you have ever had any experience with these people perhaps your experience was the same as mine - people who are many times more vicious and stifiling than the bourgoise.”

Eh, not really. I’d associate it more with the new left, and those who ended up turning all of Marx’s materialism into abstraction. But most of the poets I know are pretty damn broke, and they’re definitely not writing proletarian realism like good Soviets. I think it has a lot more to do with newer technologies being better at capturing “realistic” images or whatever, so the old technologies become more abstract. At least in my experience, whether or not art is avant garde doesn’t have much to do with class.

“Either way; my main point is that I don’t think concrete is a good word to use. Practical and utilitarian maybe, or perhaps even expressive…or best yet maybe even, in some sense, obsucre (don’t let this word distract you tfrom my over all point, I can’t tell it’is the best or worst word I used to communicate my idea).”

I think any of those work better than what I’m saying. Art probably doesn’t involve much of the “entrepreneurial spirit” that most capitalist types admire. It’s not necessarily practical.

Ronnie James Dio…

Now that I think about it, decent heavy metal quite often has that ring to it…

Megadeth’s last two albums are blatantly anti-New World Order. Slayer, Metallica and Iron Maiden have also got quite a lot in their discography in that regard. It’s mostly anti-war, which is very common in rock, but tends to be angrier and more anti-state generally than most generic peacenik stummings.

I don’t think artists are that bothered about Capitalism or not. Artists are in their own world of creativity which is so beautiful, it is not so often that we get to witness what all they can achieve through their creativity. But i am not sure that their creativity leads to change in ideology. Capitalism supports all Artists and allows them to do free trade and business on their work.

Megadeth’s last two albums are blatantly anti-New World Order. Slayer, Metallica and Iron Maiden have also got quite a lot in their discography in that regard. It’s mostly anti-war, which is very common in rock, but tends to be angrier and more anti-state generally than most generic peacenik stummings.

Metallica used to be a respectable and politically vocal band (Fight Fire with Fire, Ride the Lightening, One, …And Justice for All, etc. - once the Load album came out they tried to be “alternative” and went from a good thrash metal band to shit). One reason being is that they had some strong punk influence from Discharge, English Dogs, and Anti-Nowhere League (of whom they’ve covered and have played with ANL).

When you’re influenced by a band who’s entire base of lyrical themes are state violence, death, nuclear war, and oppression…you’ll be pretty angry.

“I spread disease like a dog, discharge my payload..!”

Trey Parker is actually a registered member of the Libertarian Party.[2] Fellow co-creator Matt Stone sums up their views with the comment “I hate conservatives, but I really ***** hate liberals.”[3]

Made a couple images I thought you guys might enjoy, click for hi-res. :slight_smile:

Awesome, I love the Human Action one! You should try and make it into a t-shirt!

I really like the Mises one.

Great work, kash-money. I like them both a lot. I thought I’d share a painting called “Ben and the Fat Cat Banksters” I created at the end of last year. It is a 40" x 30" acrylic on stretched canvas. You can see closer detail of the painting at http://www.hecklesketch.com. Feedback (positive or negative) is welcome. There are more on the way in the first half of this year. This and future peices are meant to entertainingly expose flaws of economics and government, while others will more directly support free market capitalism.

I too often think about the lack of capitalist-related artwork and share similar theories to those expressed in this thread. If there are any artists out there that don’t yet have exposure or are in-waiting for some reason, I would be happy to explore helping you publish your work if you’re interested.