I could possibly see reasons for why people from countries with no/little history of immigration could be fearful, but it is seriously quite ridiculous for Americans to have this idea. These people are pretty much making the same argument as the No Knowthing party, except now they can throw in the word ‘illegal’ and that hangs people up a lot. “this is a nation of laws!” Its likely that most Mexicans have more ‘American’ (as in the pre European invasion inhabitants of the continent) blood than the folks arguing on the Hannity forum.
I mean seriously? Arguing against immigration in the United Freakin’ States? We were given a huge ass statue that says "*"Give me your tired, your poor,*Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" for fucks sake. People have been immigrating to this country since its inception. A president of the United States wrote a book titled A Nation of Immigrants.
These guys cant answer anything. Nothing. You start citing evidence and they ignore you. A few have clamored for the government to protect us, and I challenge the view that government even cares about protecting us and that private security (air marshalls, pepper spray) would have done a better job and I get silence. Its just a fashion with these chumps.
I was thinking about this thread, and how I used to think when I was a conservative. It was economic issues that really cleared the way for me, ie, changed my thinking. If someone tried to hit me head on regarding my political beliefs, forget it. I would react with the same arguments they present here, and I wouldn’t budge in my position.
However, when the nature of money became more clear, and the nature of the central bank in particular, my economic thinking changed. It was only a very short time later, maybe a few months, before the entire edifice of my conservative political thinking crumbled. Interventionist political thinking is crushed in the wake of sound economic thought. If I have any suggestions for the “de-H Squad”, as you guys continue the campaign to liberate interventionist minds, it would be to focus on sound economic thinking.
By the way, Ridin’ Dirty is Rettoper, unmistakable.
"I was thinking about this thread, and how I used to think when I was a conservative. It was economic issues that really cleared the way for me, ie, changed my thinking. If someone tried to hit me head on regarding my political beliefs, forget it. I would react with the same arguments they present here, and I wouldn’t budge in my position.
However, when the nature of money became more clear, and the nature of the central bank in particular, my economic thinking changed. It was only a very short time later, maybe a few months, before the entire edifice of my conservative political thinking crumbled. Interventionist political thinking is crushed in the wake of sound economic thought. If I have any suggestions for the “de-H Squad”, as you guys continue the campaign to liberate interventionist minds, it would be to focus on sound economic thinking."
It was pretty much 100% the same with me. Once I really started looking into the reasons behind TARP and the Stimulus, my entire conception of our economic reality was turned around, and after that it only took a short time for me to adopt libertarian political stances, as well.
For me the other big thing was ethical consistency, and principles. An interventionist system always ends up being led by men, rather than ideas, and as Hayek pointed out so beautifully in his “Why The Worst Get On Top” chapter of The Road to Serfdom, this is a recipe for disaster. Unlike other ideologies, libertarianism seems to value the means (NAP, absolute property rights) as ends in themselves, providing a timeless ideological safeguard that no policy of arbitrary intervention could never hope to achieve.
I concur with this approach. I felt the same way a few years ago. I remember quickly dismissing all political arguments against conservatism and blindly following the crowd. I remember having a hard time with this forum and avoiding it all together for some time. It was the principles of sound economics and the systematic logical approach to AE that got me to change. As I learned, the internal contradictions in the foundation of my political beliefs slowly ate away at me until it quickly collapsed.
I don’t know if any of the folks at Hannity forum’s are intellectually honest enough to engage in a thoughtful debate, I wouldn’t waste my time there, but if you feel so inclined, begin the discussions on something they can easily grasp and relate too. Sound money is the best bet.
Orthogonal / Mises Pieces / chloe732 - that makes three of us now in fairly quick succession who abandoned conservatism only after exposure to sound economics.
The political thinking of the conservative is like a wall around a castle. It’s impossible to attack head on. But sound economics is like a key that opens the lock on the drawbridge gate. It’s a much easier way to win a battle, I think.
