Help in buying silver coins

[John_James]

@caulds989

Those tax shelters can be very beneficial. However, the problem with offshore bank accounts (as i understand them) is that, unless you plan to move to the country you have placed these funds, then you are merely delaying your tax obligation to the point at which you use the money domestically. I could be wrong about that. I am unaware of how to get around this problem. As for the third party interest rate system laid out in the wiki you posted, it seems that there is a fairly good chance of this causing an audit, which would essentially ruin your plan. but wealthy people do get away with this all the time, and I think thats a great thing. Again, I dont think these are necessarily bad ideas if you can position them correctly, but I imagine it takes a great deal of time and expertise (which means money if you dont know what you are doing) to arrange these things.

There were more than at least half a dozen things mentioned on that page, and you pick out 2 that you know almost nothing about, and attempt to pretend your attempts to discount them are even relevant.

The entire reason I included that link was just to give support to my point that there are a myriad of tax shelters. (I.e. despite your implications, buying life insurance from you is not the only way for a person to avoid the tax man.)

As for the cash value payout, it is not the payout that shields you from inflation.

So, you mean, it doesn’t shield you from inflation.

What I meant by shielding from inflation was that the guaranteed interest rate alone is higher than the current rate of inflation.

No, it isn’t. And if you weren’t here to peddle insurance, I would actually be surprised that someone who claims to “love Austrian economics” would actually claim something like that.

And that’s just the guaranteed rate. Its currently about 1.5% higher than the current inflation rate, plus you are given dividends every year, due to our being a mutual company. So, in that sense, you are shielded from inflation.

…too bad inflation is 2 to 3 times your guaranteed rate. Then buying what you’re selling it might actually start to make sense.

With Gold, you are essentially equalizing with inflation because the value of Gold is pretty much relative to the money supply.

No, it isn’t.

And if we are truly realistic, you will initially lose some of your money on Gold because of the fees in buying it, as well as temporary occasional losses in its perceived value based upon (however wrong) the consumers confidence is in the dollar it is traded with.

“Fees”? You mean, a small premium over spot price? Yes, I’m so sure an average OTC bullion premium is astronomical compared to the commissions on your policies.

@caulds989

I was suggesting cash value life insurance for the money you have for your “emergency fund”, or money that is in savings doing nothing for you. The reason we put it in CDs and bank accounts is because it is so liquid. But cash value life insurance (and other insurance) is just as liquid, while providing a nice interest rate, as well as a dividend, in this case.

Money contributed to an IRA is just as liquid as any of the other things you mentioned. Gold and silver are essentially just as liquid.

In a Roth, you still have the disadvantage of paying the taxes up front.

…because you completely avoid paying taxes up front on money you use to pay for life insurance policies.

no roth is better than another. It all depends on what you think your tax bracket will be, as well as what the tax rates will be for each bracket, when you decide to pull the money out.

That doesn’t even make sense. It makes absolutely no difference what your tax bracket is with a Roth. As long as you’ve had the Roth for at least 5 years, if you start taking distributions after age 59.5, you pay zero taxes on those distributions. Period. I have no clue why you’re even mentioning tax brackets.

So we agree? Again, I stated this to say that it might be wise to put (some of) your conservative funds into cash value life insurance.

You stated it as if anyone was talking about putting all their investment dollars into gold and silver, which, as I stated, not even scammers suggest. You’re saying “hey, you need to diversify…you can’t just put everything in gold…you should buy what I’m selling.” And my point is, no one is talking about putting everything into gold. As in, there is already diversification. No one needs your product to be diversified.

For instance, lets say your annual premium on a whole life insurance policy is $100. Every year you pay that $100

…after you pay taxes on it, of course…right?

@caulds989

The company invests that money and guarantees a minimum annual return every year.

“Guaranteed” huh? So you mean, like, even if the company invests the money poorly, and actually ends up posting losses…I’ll still earn a positive return? And even if the company ends up not being able to pay all it’s operating costs and ends up going bankrupt…I’ll still be earning income?

Wow. That’s awesome. I must learn more.

The first few years, the money is used to pay for the cost of insuring you. So at year one, you might have 0 cash vlaue.

Sounds pretty liquid. I’m definitely seeing how this is better than gold or silver already.

But come year three, you have paid in $300 total, but your cash value might be $350.

Might be? You mean, it would probably be more like $335? You know, cuz that’s a lot closer to 3-5% than $350.

Every year you are also paid a dividend

Oh great! What’s a typical dividend yield? I’m dying to know.

if you were willing to wait 3-5 years, you will have at least profited.

In nominal terms, maybe. (3-5%, of course).

My point being, if you are going to use some of your money for long term investments, and some for safe, conservative investments, yet you want access to the money, then cash value life insurance does all of that.

And my point is no, it doesn’t. If you consider losing overall purchasing power every year “safe” “investing”, fine. But I call it money down the toilet.

Yes, there is an initial “charge” up front.

Oh you mean like a “fee” one might incur when buying gold?

@caulds989

If you can live a few years, then you will see all that money back, and the interest you paid to the insurer up front will be paid back to you.

Wow. There’s just no downside!

If you die, say in year three, then you have really made a good move with a profit of $99,700.

Yes, dying is such a great move. Very profitable. I’m not sure why more people don’t do it.

Again, my motives are irrelevant.

No, they really aren’t. It’s incredibly relevant why exactly someone is being nice to me or joining conversations or pretending to like the same things I do. If the person is geniunely interested in me, or learning about what I’m talking about, that’s one thing. If the person is more interested in selling me something and is simply being nice and “interested” in what I’m talking about so that I might be more willing to buy, that’s another.

Your motives for participating in this forum are quite the opposite of irrelevant.

I didn’t give the name of my company.

Because if you did, you’d be in breach of contract. You already told us this.

I didn’t pitch any particular product (we have many kinds of cash value life insurance),

Now that’s irrelevant.

I wonder if it would be considered advertising if someone had responded to my thread saying that he sells gold and silver.

Yes, it would.

@caulds989

I didn’t even bring it up until you had responded and I mentioned insurance because I wanted to know what you all would think about it as an opportunity vs gold or silver.

Right, you already admitted you were trying to “establish yourself”, and I already addressed the fact that this OP full of questions about silver was a bait and switch.

I would be willing to run numbers for you all day and tell you exactly what this stuff could do for you

I’m sure you would, Mr. Insurance Salesman.

you might LEARN something.

Based on what you’ve shared so far, I think I’d be more likely to be fed a bunch of lies and half truths.

It doesn’t mean you have to do it, or even if you did, do it with me or even the company I work for. Jesus, it was a choice I offered. Isn’t that one thing we all love about what capitalism is supposed to be, choices? Anyone on this forum is free to contact me or not. I gave info, not a pitch.

I say again. One thing you’re definitely not lying about is being a salesman.

I’ve been on these forums for years. I have never said a word about what i do.

Years? You started your account a year ago.

Never said a word? Perhaps that’s because you only started working at the insurance company less than 3 months ago? How do I know that? Oh, because you said a few words about what you do about two months ago.

You are paranoid if you think spending all of that time on here, writing out responses, learning the material, asking questions, would make it worth it for me for the SMALL POTENTIAL that MAYBE someone MIGHT take me up on it.

All that time? You mean all the time it’s taken you to write 58 posts in over a year? Yeah I’d say the commissions on life insurance policies are well worth that. If I had no ethical or decorum issues with participating in a forum so as to “establish myself” (with 58 posts over fourteen months) so that I might be able to claim the forum members are my “warm market” and then bait and switch them into a thread by asking about precious metals and then go off into a sales pitch, I might do the same thing.

Then after i talked to one person, that they would follow through with it. Then I have t get an appointment (by law) from your state, fill out the application, for the average amount of money I would make off of it of $600.

…Unless of course you can get me to buy an overfunded policy, right? And then of course we’d have to calculate your trails. And again, we’re talking about a forum with thousands of readers every day. And you’re “establishing yourself” as one of them…an in-member in a very targeted market.

Yes, again, if I had no sense of decorum, I’d probably do the same thing.

@caulds989

If all I wanted was to make money, there would be much more effective ways than joining an online community of a largely with maybe 10 members who are active hourly, and respond to every thread.

Maybe that’s why you instead joined an online community that has over a thousand active members and receives 40,000 views a day, and only responded to maybe a dozen or so threads.

Add to that that the austrian school is BY FAR the smallest political philosphy out there,

Another good point…the perfect type of community to try to “establish yourself” in. (As, of course, the smaller the community, the closer-knit it would tend to be, which would imply that if one were to become accepted and recognized in such a community, one would be much more likely to be trusted…and therefore could much more easily sell products to the members.) Not that I’m saying any of this would work here, I’m just saying it makes logical sense.

and it is a group economically and financially sound enough to poke holes in any of my arguments or “advertisments”.

You mean kind of like what’s going on right now?

If this was my strategy, why wouldn’t I go on some larger forum out there, with many more ignorant, gullible people where all I would have to say is “free money” and hordes might come charging.

Because if that’s really how it worked, and all you had to do was go to an Internet forum and say “free money” and hordes came charging, there’d be a lot more rich people surfing Internet forums.

What’s next? That i only talk to my parents because I want them to buy insurance from me. Think about what you are saying.

You should take your own advise. You’re comparing random unknowns on an Internet forum to your own parents…and I should think about what I’m saying?

But your debate performance on this thread is lacking seriously.

How so? My guess is there’s no real substance to that and you wouldn’t say if if I went easier on you.

You could be an even better asset to liberty is you weren’t so damn smug all the time.

Damn shame, ain’t it?

Good thing you are knowledgable, I guess. I’m sorry if anybody thought my post was in bad taste. My intentions were meant in the best way possible, but, as I said before, Intentions are irrelevant in almost anything anyway.

And as I said, intentions are quite relevant. I don’t know about you, but if someone offers to give some kid a ride to the park in his unmarked van, I’d certainly like to know his intentions.

But hey, maybe I’m wrong. Uncle Harry’s intentions with the young boy may very well be completely irrelevant, and knowing them would make absolutely no difference whatsoever in whether I allow that kid to get in that seat. No difference. Harry’s intentions: completely irrelevant. My decision to intervene would much more likely be based on something like the quality of the seatbelt buckle and the condition of his tires.