My question still has not been answered. This turned into a big Holocaust-never-happened-yes-it-did-no-it-didn’t party.
My winning of the internet is more important then your question!
But seriously, I think some have already answered your question.
yeah, you win. for one thousand years.
Would you say that’s a failure of democracy, or of government in general?
Look, how can you appear to be good?
Three ways only;
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Be better, work harder, be decent, act ethically…
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Claim your opponents are worse, lying if necessary or creating false accusations.
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Silence your critics, so that your position doesn’t go worse, only your opponents’s.
Governments use options 2 and 3, during war specially. Don’t criticize us, you will be a traitor! And after that, How dare you insult the sacrifices of our brave soldiers!
Going back to for example, WW2, Point 3, silence your critics is accomplished, “treason laws” on your own country and… now opposition country to accuse you of anything or refute your propaganda!
Without propaganda, looking at point 1 only, pre-WW2, one has immediately to concede that Germany was a better country, more hard-working and more ethical.
-The US, genocide and stealing north america, keeping slaves, trading with them, burning witches until late, faking wars to steal mexico and Spanish possessions, arrogantly claiming ownership of all the continent (Monroe Doctrine), intervening in foreign continents and wars… when they themselves are perfectly isolated and protected between massive oceans! Imperialistic and world-dominant in nature, not of their own environment (north-america), but to the whole world! The country with the least necessity for armies, with the most easily defended geographical position and friendlier frontiers ever… is the country with the biggest military! That says it all! British Imperialism/Piracy in their Genes.
It’s good to remember how Lysander Spooner on his essay on Jury debunks the myth of law as a British product but instead shows it was a north-german one that was later imported to Britain! Pre-1945 German Law is much more objective and truth seeking than the money-might show trials of Anglo-America. where disguised as impartiality they censure the judge and the team with most lawyers and better oratory wins, in German Law the judge intervenes on his own to find out everything, so, even if you are poor, the judge will defend you because he is not sitting there but interested in finding what happens.
Germany had very aggressive neighbors, a lot of frontiers and countries all around to defend itself against, no massive empty continent to expand and get resources, and still it outgrows Britain and America all the time, even after losing two world wars! And the arrogant Anglos claim they are the free-marketers and hard-workers? Ha!
And back to topic, Andrew Cain, I would sign I killed Lincoln, Kennedy and Julius Caesar! If I were under soviet torture or threatened to be handed to them!
Let’s examine for example, Auschwitz-Treblinka commandeer Hoss’s “testimonies”;
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A testimony signed by him, in English, when he didn’t know English!
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Talks about three camps, Treblinka, Wolzek and Belzek. Belzek camp never existed, he invented it and “confessed” to crimes in a camp that never existed!
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Talks about gassing at dates when the camps hadn’t even been built yet!
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Changes the numbers of cremated corpses from 2000 to 120, just like that, and nothing happened!
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Talks about blowing gas through a hole, which is physically impossible as ZylonB was solid!
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Hides documents showing ZylonB was ordered not for camps only, but for whole cities like Berlin, because it is a pesticide!
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Hides the fact that the pictures of “oh, danger symbol and an oven” was a small one for clothes, and this real cloth-burning oven was much more solid and closed that the “supposed gas chambers”.
-Hides the fact that the Poles built the “gas chambers” after the war and show it to tourist. They are not real! They were built after the war! Supposedly according to how they were before… they don’t say that part, that they are so fake the victors built them!
-Hides the fact that Hoss, Treblinka’s commander, sent a letter to his wife stating he was ashamed of having been forced to said that under torture. That is never said. Remember the three points at the beginning of my post.
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Hides the fact that the camps were never “liberated”, when allies took over, they kept the prisoners there, because there truly was an infection and could not release them and spread that infection to the rest of Germany.
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Hides the fact that American doctors made autopsies to the graves, and stated they died of typhus, all of them, no one has ever been autopsied as been gases, no one, ever. The Americans finally listened to the doctors who were begging to stop opening the graves because the infection, of which they died would risk spreading.
-Hides the fact the Federal Government of Germany today claims no gassing ever happened! They can’t even defend it anymore and had to go back to shootings (which did happen in at least one isolated incident, against orders by rogue commander like in Riga)
-Hides the fact that the Allies bombed the medical factories, condemning to death hundred thousands of people. Germany never used gas warfare, even when they had better technology and capabilities, they did stock only as retaliation if Churchill used them first, which he ordered to do, bought gas to Americans and ordered it prepared in bombs and selected six germans cities to annihilate, fortunately Churchill was overruled by his military at the last moment)
-Hides the fact that thousands of concentration camps died during Allied Occupation, because there was no food, transportation and the million civilians killed by the Allies’s bombings were infecting the water supplied. Therefore they know and could easily calculate and see how and why this people died. They opened the graves again and again and ended with one result only, death by infections.
-Hides the fact that against Geneva conventions, the allies SOLD SLAVES, at 200£!
-Several million Germans were murdered after the surrender, sold as slaves, given to the “victors” as slaves, and treated so bad, that the British and Americans had to stopped giving them to the French.
-The cities were emptied of males, all were transported in horrible conditions to be sold as slaves to the Soviets, at 200£ per head.
-Tens of thousands were executed, lynched, tortured in presence or directly by the occupying forces.
-Incalculable amounts of art were “liberated”, sometimes going as far as accusing of pro-nazi an innocent in order to steal his property.
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Hundred of reporters and lawyers were flown from America and given the best homes that survived the bombings, kicking out to the streets the german civilian living there. While civilians were dying of hunger, American reporters and lawyers were enjoying Lous XIV style banquets. Of course, the bill was sent to the german taxpayers later.
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The Approved Morgenthau plan meant 5 million slaves, innocent german childs to be sold to Stalin (counted as 200£ per child as war-reparations)
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It also meant the genocide of Germany, sterilization of all the german men and women and Germany made a farm land.
Now, go back to the begging of my post and read again the three points. There was a holocaust, against German civilians.
Therefore, the Holocaust is used to hide the terrible revenge, hate and genocidal policies that resulted in the death of millions of german civilians.
It’s the same algorithm always;
- Saddam was evil, had WMD and was going to use them! We had to attack them first and if something happened during the occupation.. it’s his fault!
Of course no WMD has been discovered.
- Hitler was gassing Jews and had to be stopped! He wasn’t. In fact, he and Himmler(SS) protected them during KristalNacht running to protect them from the civilians hate.
Of course, no gassed jew has ever been discovered.
Only after the war broke out were they detained in mase, for security concerns (as the americans did to the Japanese). Even more, the American detention was worse, without any historical reason or rational security concern and against the military who were against it. In Germany the Army argued for it for security concerns, there was a clear recent historical argument for it, the recent Bavarian communist coup d’etat lead by jews, others in Eastern Europe and the smoking gun of the Bolsheviks which absolutely everybody knows 90% of the commissars and secret police were not just jews, but even foreign jews, brought it only for the revolution. There was a evident and justified fear in Europe, in all classes, high, middle and lower classes that the same genocide and brutality could happen in central Europe too, it’s a shame and unjust that innocent jews had to leave their homes for security detention camps while the war was on out of fear of the population they would organized a coup just as they had done in the East.
Some could argue they were even lucky because thanks to their eviction of their homes in their cities they were saved of the Allied fire-bombing that murdered a million civilians. Concentration camps in fact were safer and those who survived the war calamity like the food and medicine crisis were given priority care by the Allied unlike simple german civilians who died like files, even more, they got more rights than the german civilians and were given houses kicking german civilians out to homelessness and taking their homes. They benefit, they were police escorted to safety zones, camps where they were given food and protected of infections as best as possible, visited by RedCross and several times were offered in barter negotiations (which the Allied refused, showing how much they cared about them). If they died, is because the whole country was dying, everybody, every town, no infrastructure, no medicines, the water poisoned. Unlike the rest, they were not fire-bombed and when the war ended they were given priority treatment, housing, subsidies, passport to a new country while still maintaining eternal subsidies, subsidies only they earned, gypsies didn’t, political prisoners didn’t, only jews had right to eternal subsidies. Even russian emigrants of the russian civil war were betrayed and given to Stalin, murdered as soon they crossed the bordered. A 15 year old german child who lost his family and his home during the bombing had no help at all and had to survive on his own all the war, occupation and postwar. A jew was immediately given the best homes and a pension for all his life, at the back of that german child. And if that german child tried to protest, he would be jailed, even today.
“…what began in 1941 was a process of destruction not planned in advance, not organized centrally by any agency. There was no blueprint and there was no budget for destructive measures. They were taken step by step, one step at a time. Thus came not so much a plan being carried out, but an incredible meeting of minds, a consensus-mind reading by a far-flung bureaucracy.”
Newsday, Long Island/New York, 23rd February 1983, p. II/3.
so an industrialized, mass-murder machine was run by telepathic coordination. and that from one of the most lauded exterminationists, raul hilberg. no wonder some have trouble believing the orthodox narrative. perhaps someone should have pointed out to him mises’ economic calculation in the socialist commonwealth, and spared him embarrassment.
over the life of the nazi regime, the power structure within the camps changed dramatically. initially, criminal internees were at the top of the pecking order. then as communists were rounded up, they became the dominant group. well-organized, they could determine life-and-death of any internee by murder, or by control over allocation of rations or work-duties. propaganda about the camps not only came from the outside, but also from communists within the camps. rassinier details as much in le mensonge d’ulysse.
hoss’ testimony is as believable as the spontaneous confessions that emerged from the “guilty” in the moscow show trials.
ilya ehrenburg, soviet jewish propagandist urged the red army to rape and pillage as they advanced to berlin:
"Kill, Kill! There are no innocent Germans, among the living, or among those yet to be born!
Carry out Comrade Stalin’s instructions to crush the fascist beast in his lair Shatter the pride [78] of the
Germanic women with violence. Take them as lawful spoils. Kill, kill, valiant soldiers of the Red Army,
in your irresistible onslaught. "
(Cited by Admiral Doenitz in 10 Years and 20 Days, pp. 343-344)
bernard clarke, jewish head of the interrogation, subsequently admitted to having used torture on hoess to extract a “coherent” confession (rupert butler, legions of death. 1983). irrespective of guilt or innocence, confessions made under torture completely degrade the concept of justice. can anyone seriously call themselves a friend of liberty and not be disgusted by torture, and whatever “history” is born of it?
Why do you keep posting shit to support Nazi Germany? You’re going to say they were a good government because they were better than the Soviets? What’s the point of these supposed facts?
newson, what is your purpose in calling Clarke the jewish head of interrogation?
to d.j.s.:
it’s pertinent because jews, not unsurprisingly or irrationally, had a particularly personal axe to grind with nazis, over and above being on the side of the victorious.
to b.a.:
you seem unable to comprehend that it’s possible to condemn both nazism and communism, as i have.
i do think, however, that certain aspects of germany’s wwii behaviour have been deliberately exaggerated to distract from the appalling crimes of the soviets, and the sins of the allies, too,
as a contemporary example, saddam hussein was a murderous thug, guilty of much against his own people, but killing babies in incubators he didn’t do. maybe if that distortion had been unmasked in a timely fashion, countless thousands of civilians would still be alive, public opinion in america not being supportive enough of intervention following the iraq invasion of kuwait.
Let’s put it in perspective. 16% of the population of Canada voted for the Conservative Party in 2008.
Player, are you living in Germany? I don’t know how you are not in jail at this moment.
I’m sure that I’ve already said enough in the past that I would be arrested if I set foot in one of several states in Europe. I’m not familiar with the biochemistry of gassing. I wonder how well the ZyklonB would stick in the tissues of the dead, that the graves of the alleged could be uncovered and examined. …Because this thread is long hijacked anyway.
“Player, are you living in Germany? I don’t know how you are not in jail at this moment.”
What Germany? There is no Germany, there is a partitioned country occupied by foreign troops, with a full Inquisition/Police state with more than 10.000 Political trials per year.
Today German state and court of law are illegal under international law, illegal under German Law and as puppet occupation regime as Iraq or Afghanistan.
All you Americans are wrong when you think Police State is something new, you have been doing that to Germany and Europe for decades.
I will give you just one proof, only one, that shows how unjust all of you are.
Great Britain. That’s it, Great Britain, the Big Britain, the mighty Britain, it’s a country, with good reputation and a name you can speak freely without being looked upon with suspicion, you say Great Britain and nothing happens.
Now, the same with Germany, you say Gross Deutschland, a Germany including Austrian and surrounding East Europe and you are immediately a nazi, imperialist, invader, warmonger. Think about that.
Do I sense a longing for a Gross Deutschland?
@ player
i dont understand your claim… are you assuming when everyone thinks of Great Britain, they think of how glorious it is and when people think of Germany, they automatically think of nazis?
Great Britain is a geographical term, referring to the largest of the British isles…