Saying something is not a crime is not the same as saying it is fine. Were you born stupid?
Why?
Not from my experience.
Not standing up for the oppressed. Not standing for that which is morally right.
Are you willing to shoot someone over stealing your watch?
I am not going to get angry. I just intend to call them out on their cowardice. I think libertarians need to become MORE passionate about our beliefs.
What does that matter? It is not about whether or not I would shoot a robber. Way to throw in a red herring. It is about whether or not I would support someone getting robbed!
Do you think robberty is okay? Not just okay, but do you encourage it? For fear of what would happen if peaceful people were not threatened? If so, you are the biggest coward I can think of.
Wow I love this quote and I remember it specifically. Meditations is one of my favorite books. You can just open to a random page and find something incredibly insightful and relevant to your life. The ultimate self-help book.
Passion is all that is necessary to bring the stereotype of “left-wing bleeding heart liberals” to the libertarian side, since the only reason they got to that point was believing they had a moral high ground.
But do consider how you can really help anyone if you are unable to first accept them. Do that first and everything else flows nicely.
Very true. Do you know of any good arguments (similar to pointing out the gun in the room) in regard to passion/heart-strings? Seems like they refuse to believe the ultilitarianism of capitalism.
Well any arguments I use are very personal depending on who I’m talking to. But to me the best way in dealing with that is to show real evidence of suffering.
Like for people who rail against sweatshops the following breaks their emotional appeals into shambles
Taken from wikipedia:"A 2005 article in the Christian Science Monitor states, "For example, in Honduras, the site of the infamous Kathy Lee Gifford sweatshop scandal, the average apparel worker earns $13.10 per day, yet 44 percent of the country’s population lives on less than $2 per day… In Cambodia, Haiti,Nicaragua, and Honduras, the average wage paid by a firm accused of being a sweatshop is more than double the average income in that country’s economy.
On three documented occasions during the 1990s, anti-sweatshop activists in rich countries have apparently caused increases in childhood prostitution in poor countries. In Bangladesh, there was a closure of several sweatshops which had been run by a German company, and as a result, thousands of Bangladeshi children who had been working in those sweatshops ended up working as prostitutes, turning to crime, or starving to death. In Pakistan, several sweatshops, including ones run by Nike, Reebok, and other corporations, were closed, which caused those Pakistani children to turn to prostitution. In Nepal, a carpet manufacturing company closed several sweatshops, resulting in thousands of Nepalese girls turning to prostitution."
Making it personal is very important- because what a “bleeding-heart liberal” is against is suffering. Which is of course a righteous cause to fight against. But the understanding that personal effort is whats necessary to bring the change they want should be the goal. Let say the subject comes up about welfare- ask them why they don’t part with more of their own money to help the needy? So many people champion welfare here in New York- but I see nobody helping out the homeless which are on the streets plain as day.
The problem with the “pointing out the gun in the room” argument is that it can be a turn off since you’re asking them why don’t they do something negative(Ex: Would you use a gun to rob Peter to pay Paul?). I mean I understand the argument it makes perfect sense, but pointing out the lazy person in the room has been much more positive for me.
actionguy10,
Much obliged, I have never heard those sweat shop statistics before.
I’d assume the common response to turning the cheek to the homeless on the street would be “I have paid my welfare taxes so it doesn’t make me a hypocrite.” They see the state as a necessary middle man in the wealth transfer. Obviously this is a poor position to hold if they are saddened by and compassionate for the homeless they walk by. Just not so obvious for them.
I just watched the hoover institue interview with Sowell on his book. I think he’s spot on.
Here’s the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERj3QeGw9Ok
I really like one of his last sentences:
“We are becoming a nation of people who are propagandized from elementary school right on through to the graduate school in a certain vision of the world, and only the ones who, for one reason or another, either experience, or insight, or whatever, leads them to say, “Wait a minute!” - only those are the ones we have to depend on.” –
Which is why I don’t like general argument suggestions, I don’t know anyone who’s been convinced to throw their mind inside out from just one line or two- there’s always going to be some type of response that’ll ignore the logic you’re trying to argue from and it’ll drive ya nuts.
Change will come from within, once someone’s willing to accept that other positions outside of their own might have some merit, then debatable arguments truly shine and ideas can really sink in. You can spark that change without challenging their ideas directly(ideas which they’d probably feel uncomfortable disassociating with) by being very open and present with them. So accepting them as they are(not condoning their beliefs), will get you away from an aggressive line of thinking where you try to change a person- so that they aren’t feeling threatened.
Haha, most people don’t do that in day-to-day life with anybody- but when its done people will listen to what you have to say. When you really want nothing from somebody, there’s no more pressure and a go-nowhere debate turns into a fruitful discussion. Works better in person I’d say.
In my experience that’s the big obstacle, its not the positions we hold that need work, they do just fine.