I don't understand Hayekian economics

Value and Capital was not Austrian. Hicks got the Marshallian education at Cambridge (allegedly at the time, pre-Keynes, Pigou used to say “it’s all in Marshall” - the fools, clearly it’s all in Mises!) but he studied a lot of French (Walras) and Italian (Pareto). Value and Capital combined Walrasian theory with Marshall which was new in Anglo-American economics. So not very Austrian. It’s an important book though.

Decades later Hicks wrote Capital and Time: A Neo-Austrian Theory, but that’s not really very Austrian either!

Hayek had a better understanding of economics and he rejected aprior resoning.

Hicks was a Hayekian before he converted.

No, Hayek never rejected reason and theory for historicism. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

I suggest you read Monetary Theory and the Trade Cycle, by Hayek.

LOL than whom? What are you on about? Anyone who rejects a priori reasoning is an idiot, sorry. How do they reject it? A priori!

That’s hardly evidence of accepting the calculation argument. He says he struggled with his arguments but agreed with the conclusions. I’m still to find evidence that Hulsmann is wrong about Hayek.

Hayek’s “knowledge problem” is the Calculation problem.

"not always satisfied by his arguments" hardly means not accepting the calculation argument, which is what you are implying.

Hayek’s knowledge problem is strictly different to Mises’ original calculation argument, if you want to find out more on this you should see the dehomogenisation literature. Salerno has been very good on this.

This is not to detract from Hayek’s contribution, I just wanted to emphasize his is a different one.

The arguments are certainly different. But they seem to be both attacking the same problem from different angles.

I concur[Y]

I think Hulsmann’s argument is as follows:

Mises argued that it is inconceivable that a socialist planner could calculate, because real market money prices are the only way that value can be dealt with arithmetically. Hayek accepted that it is was conceivable (since he accepted Wieserian imputation theory, which asserted that value is essentially a quantity, and thus can be directly used for calculation) but practically impossible, because of the amount of information that would need to be gathered by the single bureau.

The distinction between inconceivable and practically impossible is an important one when you’re dealing with people like socialists who will desperately try to exploit any opening to justify their precious system. In this regard, they’re rather like Jim Carrey’s character in this clip:

Are you saying that Hayek, throughout his career, believed that value could be measured cardinally?

You don’t have to be a replica of Mises in order to be an Austrian economist.

You’re neglecting this part of what I wrote:

Who here said Hayek was not an Austrian economist?

Well, that’s the point of this thread. Hayek was most definitely an Austrian economist–there is no “Hayekian economics.”

Also, can you provide a link to Hulsmann’s article? I don’t know what this guy is trying to say.

Well couldn’t Hayekian economics be conceived as a subset of Austrian economics?

It’s from p. 472 of Hulsmann’s Mises bio. There’s more interesting related stuff in p. 399-404.

See pages 472-476 of Hulsmann’s Last Knight.

Also, see Salerno, Leeland Yeager’s reply to Salerno, and Salerno’s reply to Yeager.

Also what maybe very useful in my opinion, to roundup that debate is the following articles by Stalebrink and Machaj

I’ve always understood Hayek and Mises’ arguments to be practically identical. The role of the price mechanism is to convey information to entrepreneurs; it tells them how to coordinate production, what kind of capital (how much capital) and labor to employ, and how to set up certain combination’s through trial and error (which are also turned into information signals). The failure of socialism is that there are no prices, and therefore, there are no information signals which direct spatial-temporal productions, and efficiently manage scarce resources. To say that there isn’t a functional price mechanism is to say that planners are clueless. If planners were omniscient then they could indeed centrally plan the economy–but then they would be gods, and not men. The only difference is that Mises flat out says that socialism is impossible, while Hayek only implicitly says so.

The biggest difference between Mises and Hayek, then, was that Hayek wasn’t as straightforward. Saying that they “come from different traditions” is entirely absurd. I mean Hayek explicitly states that he agreed with Mises’ conclusion, but wasn’t satisfied with his explanation. Also, the imputation argument suggests that Hayek believed value can be cardinally measured (this is a big deal). We can’t forget that this particular issue comprises only a fraction of their total works. This whole things appears to be one giant distraction.

Here’s an important quote from the reply to Yeager Abhi linked to:



"As SRH have repeatedly emphasized, the Misesian demonstra-



tion of the logical impossibility of socialism is not predicated on the



central planners’ incapacity to perform tasks that can conceivably be



carried out by individual human minds (e.g., discovery of factual and



technical knowledge, mathematical computations, managerial moni-



toring, and prevention of labor shirking, etc.). Rather, it is concerned



with the lack of a genuinely competitive and social market process in



which each and every kind of scarce resource receives an objective



and quantitative price appraisement in terms of a common denomi-



nator reflecting its relative importance in serving (anticipated) con-



sumer preferences. "



In other words, the Misesian calculation problem is a total lack of appraisement, while the Hayekian knowledge problem is a deficiency in communication. In the Misesian argument, it’s not just about poor communication, it’s the complete lack of any useful information to communicate in the first place.

In retrospect, this seems to be an accurate analysis, which is why I always saw the Misesian calculation problem as superior to Hayek’s knowledge problem, however, I just assumed that Hayek simply tends to emphasize the communicative aspect of the problem more then the origin/soruce of the information itself.

I can’t possibly see from Hayek’s writings (from what I’ve read) to as why he would possibly think that the knowlege itself can originate (even in theory) in the absent of a market economy.