Good luck with that.
Rockwell’s 30-day plan, anyone?
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/30-day-plan.html
And the glorious part 2:
The only realistic strategy I’ve seen for moving to a market anarchist society is that of the ‘agorists;’ everyone stops paying taxes, and all government regulations are ignored. People begin forming PDAs, which eventually become powerful enough to squash the State like an ant. (No, this is not an endorsement of Spangler, for anyone wondering.)
Sure beats voting! [H]
DAY TWENTY: All federal monuments are sold, in some cases to non-profit groups based on the Mt. Vernon Ladies Association, which owns and runs George Washington’s home. The VFW buys the Vietnam memorial. There is much bidding for the Jefferson and Washington monuments. Nobody wants FDR’s, so it’s torn down and the land sold to a farmer. (With the federal government cut back to its constitutional size, much of Washington reverts to productive uses like agriculture, as in late 18th century.)
Haha! Thanks
Care to explain what part of anarchism is not libertarian? I don’t understand.
I know that libertarianism isn’t about decentralization. Let me reiterate what I meant earlier. I am here talking about a gradual method of change that the masses will accept. The masses won’t want to get rid of all of these institutions right away. Our government is so engrained in their heads that they can’t get rid of it. I know libertarians know this. Rather from an absolute purge of the government-- I am calling for a slow and gradual and meaningful purge of the government. If we can’t do that, then, my belief is that we would have to settle for a constitutional sized government.
I wasn’t saying that anarchism isn’t libertarianism, but, that I wasn’t libertarianism. I have different belief systems than that of libertarians hence why I made that statement.
It is.
Don’t settle.
We might have to wait a generation or two.
Libertarians can have all sorts of beliefs. If you believe that the use of aggressive force is wrong in all instances, then you are a libertarian anarchist. If you believe there are exceptions, then you are a minarchist/statist.
It’s really that simple amigo.
Believe it or not this is a very good topic. The in fighting in the Libertarian movement is self defeating as are the radicals or rather those perceived by Joe voter as radicals.
Is it possible to have an agreement on key points between all libertarian organizations while maintaining disagreements on exact solutions? As an example would LVM scholars be happier with the government following the CATO institute or the Chicago School than Keynes? Obviously not an ideal situation for LVM scholars but I hope you see my point. Compromises do not need to be made only basic agreements established. Just find out what positions all Libertarian organizations agree on and use that as a platform, back away from issues of lesser importance.
I start to see big public agreement with calls for limited government, lower taxes, less government spending and then the idealists keep pushing things like legalized pot. The argument for personal responsibility is strong, the argument that medical marijuana is legitimate or remotely necessary is not. The argument that the war on drugs is a waste of money is strong, the argument that pot is harmless is not. Pot more than anything has given the Libertarian movement a black eye. Weak minded loser pot heads call themselves libertarian simply in the hopes of getting a legal high. None of this is helpful and furthers the radical appearance of libertarians while wasting the economic freedom and personal liberty message.
Anarchism is another movement that has ZERO chance of going anywhere. Anarchists are equated to radical lunatics, hate groups ect…
Branding and marketing is important and I feel the Libertarian movement has failed at both. If you cannot communicate your message to Joe voter, you have little chance at success.
I think the pragmatists/moderates are a double failure. They fail in getting anything done despite their pandering to Joe voter. And they fail in upholding their (alleged) principles too.
Actually they are a triple failure. After failing in getting politicians to listen to them they like to blame their failures on radicals - aka witch hunting.
Not as weak minded as people who think they can reform government.
It has nothing to do with being a moderate but rather being perceived as one. You failed to read what I said. It is not the message but the marketing of the message. Ron Paul’s “revolution” only caught on with the fringe for a reason while Milton Friedman’s economic theories entertained a much larger audience because he was an expert at communicating his ideas in a way that appealed to people. The closest the Austrian School has to this is Peter Schiff.
If you think the 911 truthers helped Ron Paul’s campaign you clearly did not follow the election.
How long does something stay broken before you fix it?
What’s that supposed to mean ? Libertarianism entails X, Y, Z. If you’re bothered by the fact that free trade in drugs, for instance, is a logical conclusion of freedom then join some other movement more in line with puritan/conservative political correctness.
I don’t think so, and, You failed to address what I said.
Marketing is mostly irrelevant. Philosophy is not bubble gum that needs to be marketed.
You’re assuming that the only strategy is reformism, i.e. progressively shrinking the government until it disappears.
But this isn’t the only strategy. Consider radical strategies like secession or seasteading. If one village secedes, it would be very easy to abolish the government and establish market anarchy; same with an ocean platform.
The problem is that you’re assuming that we must abolish the entire U.S. government all at once. We don’t. We can bleed it to death by microsecession and seasteading — death by a thousand cuts.
See also my post here, and also Hoppe.
It means you learn how to sell your message in a way that appeals to a majority of people. People like yourself incorrectly believe this to be compromising because you incorrectly think this entails abandoning core beliefs. Not at all, it means rewording the beliefs to appeal to the most voters. An example would be trying to sell someone on Limited Government rather than Anarchism. I find it hard to believe Anarchists would rather not see less government than more.
Libertarianism entails X, Y and Z? Really? That is why almost every major libertarian organization is at odds with another over different positions on issues? Your response to me to get lost is a perfect example of how to fail.
But the current free-drug movement is simply about legalizing Pot not all drugs - let alone abolishing the FDA. Fairly hypocritical and irrelevant.
Why would I address something you said based off of a misunderstanding of what I said?
Marketing is certainly not irrelevant if you remotely consider a goal of yours to be to influence the most people with your ideas.
IF people demand, say, a war on drugs, or a war on terrism, or that kind of thing, then they are not going to buy libertarianism. The problem is NOT a marketing problem on the side of libertarians but the fact that the consumers (apparently) want non-libertarian goods.
Great idea. And there are great examples of how well limited government works too. So, don’t provide a logical explanation showing why limited gov’t is bound to fail, rather lie to people who want to hear lies. After all the customer is always right.
Yes, logical consequences that follow from individual sovereignty.
Not sure what concrete examples of that you have in mind…
Your opinion. You seem to be saying that things should be done ‘your way’…So…You tell me what to do - I tell you what to do - get lost.
Who are you talking about, exactly ? Who are the people who want to legalize pot but not abolish the FDA ?
You don’t influence/manipulate people so that they find truth - finding truth is something people must do on their own.
Yes the it is a marketing problem on the side of libertarianism because non-libertarians believe libertarians to endorse pot use rather than individual freedom and personal responsibility. The never ending campaign by weak minded loser pot heads to legalize pot for goals (getting high) other than libertarian ideals does not help the libertarian movement.
One thing that can be said about government limited or not is that it has been very successful at staying around.
Your “logical consequences” are not universally held in the libertarian movement which is one of my main points. The libertarian movement is fractured into squabling factions making it ineffective.
Knee jerk reacting to my suggestions based on some rebellious defiance to anyone is childish.
So the majority of those pushing for legalizing marijuana also want heroin legalized? Why is there no campaign to legalize heroin? Why are they not calling to abolish the FDA?
Of course you can communicate the truth to people once you understand why they do not. Based on your logic, people would not need to read any books at the LVM. Marketing is one of the core problems of the libertarian movement.
Sounds like someone was sucked into the DARE videos. Personally I welcome any and all who want to achieve individual freedom and I think you have no right to say what does or doesn’t help ‘the movement’
Yet and here you are demonizing pot users…
The truthers didn’t help, but the problem is the same problem Pat Buchanan had. The system rejected him. It’s a testament to the power of Paul’s grassroots that he lasted as long as he did, and made as much noise as he did.
Friedman was a statist and a court economist. Paul Krugman’s theories get much more run than Ron Paul as well.
We don’t own that game, which makes it impossible to expect success in those quarters.
Look, you say that’s the case…but I doubt that’s true. I asked who are the " weak minded loser pot heads " and I didn’t get an answer…so…I’m wondering…
Again, source ?
Well, what ‘reforms’ should all libertarians push, according to you ?
I don’t know, but I can’t help noticing that first you say that radicalism is self-defeating and now you complain that some people are not consistent and radical enough ?
Actually what you say is doubly confusing because you’ve not explained what you mean by radicals.
Are you talking about ‘real’ radicals, or ‘perceived’ radicals ? Legalizing pot is (you say) seen as radical ? So, don’t advocate it. But if legalizing pot is seen as radical, then abolishing the FDA would be seen as even more radical no ? Then don’t advocate that either. So, what sort of policies do you think libertarians should be allowed to advocate ?
I’ve never been sucked into anything. What does it mean I have no right to say what does or does not help the movement? Give me a break. I have every right to say my opinion. My opinion of pot heads is based on first hand experience with them (not the drug) and my own research:
Addiction:
Animals Exposed To Marijuana’s Active Component Will Self-Administer The Drug (NIH-National Institute On Drug Abuse)
Marijuana Withdrawal As Bad As Withdrawal From Cigarettes (Drug and Alcohol Dependence Journal)
Marijuana Withdrawal Reported By Teens Seeking Treatment (Drug and Alcohol Dependence Journal)
Smoking, Drinking, Drugs: The Younger They Start, The Harder It Is To Quit (Health Education & Behavior Journal)
Gateway Drug:
Cannabis linked to use of amphetamines (Addiction Journal)
Brain Studies Tie Marijuana to Other Drugs (Science/AAAS)
Early cannabis abuse ‘leads to heroin addiction’ (Mount Sinai School of Medicine)
Early marijuana use increases risk of drug and alcohol problems later in life (Washington University School of Medicine)
Illicit Drug Use Starts With Cannabis (University of Otago, New Zealand)
Marijuana use linked to hallucinogen use (Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health)
National Study Shows “Gateway” Drugs Lead to Cocaine Use (Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse)
Brain Damage:
Cannabis Could Increase Risks Of Psychotic Illness By 40 Percent (The Lancet Medical Journal)
Cannabis Increases Risk Of Psychosis (British Medical Journal)
Cannabis increases risk of depression and schizophrenia (British Medical Journal)
Cannabis Triggers Transient Schizophrenia-like Symptoms (Neuropsychopharmacology Journal)
Cannabis use ‘dulls the brain’ (Journal of the American Medical Association)
Concerns over mental health risk of smoking cannabis (British Journal of Psychiatry)
Daily Consumption Of Cannabis Predisposes To Appearance Of Psychosis And Schizophrenia (University of Granada)
Early Cannabis Use Increases Risk of Schizophrenia (University of Otago, New Zealand)
Frequent Marijuana Use May Affect Brain Function (NeuroReport Journal)
Heavy Cannabis Use May Lead to Psychotic Symptoms (University of Otago, New Zealand)
Heavy Marijuana use has a detrimental impact on intelligence (Canadian Medical Association Journal)
Heavy Marijuana Use May Damage Developing Brain In Teens, Young Adults (Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia)
How Smoking Marijuana Damages The Fetal Brain (Science Journal)
Lab study shows THC exposure as adolescents linked to negative effects of THC as adults (Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology)
Long-term Cannabis Users May Have Structural Brain Abnormalities (Archives of General Psychiatry Journal)
Marijuana And Alcohol Taken Together Induced Widespread Nerve Cell Death In Brains Of Young Rats (Annals of Neurology Journal)
Marijuana Damages Brain (King’s College, UK)
Marijuana Is Linked to Brain Damage (The Lancet Medical Journal)
Marijuana Use Affects Blood Flow In Brain Even After Abstinence (Neurology Journal)
Marijuana use in pregnancy damages kids’ learning (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences)
Marijuana Use Takes Toll On Adolescent Brain Function (American Academy of Pediatrics)
Memory, speed of thinking get worse over time with marijuana use (American Academy of Neurology)
More Evidence Of Cannabis-induced Psychosis (BMC Psychiatry Journal)
Scans reveal brain damage from cannabis is like schizophrenia (Albert Einstein College of Medicine)
Schizophrenia Linked To Dysfunction In Molecular Brain Pathway Activated By Marijuana (Archives of General Psychiatry Journal)
Skunk smokers 18 times more likely to be psychotic (Royal College of Psychiatrists)
Smoking Marijuana Impairs Cognitive Function In MS Patients (Neurology Journal)
Starting marijuana use during teens may result in cognitive impairment later in life (NIH/National Institute on Drug Abuse)
Teen Drug Use Associated With Psychiatric Disorders Later In Life (NIH/National Institute On Drug Abuse)
Teen Marijuana Use Worsens Depression, Leads To More Serious Mental Illness (Office of National Drug Control Policy)
Cancer:
Marijuana ingredient promotes tumor growth, impairs anti-tumor defenses (NIH/National Institute on Drug Abuse)
Marijuana Use Linked to Increased Risk of Testicular Cancer (Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center)
Marijuana Use Associated with HPV-Positive Head and Neck Cancer (Journal of the National Cancer Institute)
Smoking Marijuana May Increase Risk Of Head And Neck Cancers (Cancer Epidemiology Biomarker and Prevention Journal)
Gum Disease:
Heavy Marijuana Use Linked To Gum Disease (Journal of the American Medical Association)
Heart Disease:
Adolescent binging on marijuana linked to stroke (Saint Louis University)
Marijuana use can trigger heart attack (Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center)
Marijuana Use May Pose Health Threat To Baby Boomers (American Heart Association Circulation Journal)
Possible Connection Between Marijuana Abuse And Stroke Or Heart Attacks (Molecular Psychiatry Journal)
Regular Cannabis May Increase Risk Of Stroke In Young Users (British Medical Journal)
Infertility:
Abusing Marijuana May Overload System, Inhibit Fertility (American Society for Cell Biology)
Marijuana-Like Compounds May Alter Human Fertility (American Society of Cell Biology)
Sperm From Marijuana Smokers Move Too Fast Too Early, Impairing Fertility (American Society of Reproductive Medicine)
Lung Disease:
Impact On Lungs Of One Cannabis Joint Equal To Up To Five Cigarettes (British Medical Journal)
Long-term Marijuana Smoking Leads To Respiratory Complaints (Archives of Internal Medicine Journal)
Marijuana associated with same respiratory symptoms as tobacco (Yale School of Medicine)
Marijuana Smoke Contains Higher Levels Of Certain Toxins Than Tobacco Smoke (ACS Chemical Research In Toxicology Journal)
Marijuana Smokers Face Rapid Lung Destruction – As Much As 20 Years Ahead Of Tobacco Smokers (Respirology Journal)
Marijuana Worsens COPD Symptoms In Current Cigarette Smokers (American Thoracic Society)
Research Confirms Adverse Effects of Cannabis on Respiratory Health (University of Otago, New Zealand)
Obesity:
Machinery Of The ‘Marijuana Munchies’ (Neuron Journal)
Pregnancy Complication:
Marijuana Use Causes Early Pregnancy Failure (Journal of Clinical Investigation)
Marijuana use could cause tubal pregnancies (Vanderbilt University Medical Center)
Viral Infection:
Marijuana Component Opens The Door For Virus That Causes Kaposi’s Sarcoma (Cancer Research Journal)
Regular Marijuana Use Increases Risk Of Hepatitis C-related Liver Damage (AGA Clinical Gastroenterology and Hepatology Journal)
Vomiting:
Severe Vomiting Sickness With Chronic Cannabis Abuse (World Journal of Gastroenterology)
I would never demonize weak minded people who choose to intentionally damage their brains.
I don’t understand why you (PopTech) are conflating the free drug movement with libertarianism. They are not the same thing. Some misguided morons may have claimed a “strategic alliance” but libertarianism by nature is decentralized and has no organizing faction, colour or leader, so the authority to misdirect the movement en masse simply does not exist.