In case there was any doubt: Israel's story full of holes

Israel forced to apologise for YouTube spoof of Gaza flotilla

Israeli government press office distributed video link featuring Arabs and activists singing

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/06/israel-youtube-gaza-flotilla/print

The Israeli government has been forced to apologise for circulating a spoof video mocking activists aboard the Gaza flotilla, nine of who were shot dead by Israeli forces last week.

The YouTube clip, set to the tune of the 1985 charity single We Are the World, features Israelis dressed as Arabs and activists, waving weapons while singing: “We con the world, we con the people. We’ll make them all believe the IDF (Israel Defence Force) is Jack the Ripper.”

It continues: “There’s no people dying, so the best that we can do is create the biggest bluff of all.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOGG_osOoVg

classy!

Kidnapped by Israel and abandoned by BritainBy Jamal Elshayyal

A British-born al-Jazeera producer recalls his ordeal on the Gaza flotilla

There was a second helicopter hovering over the ship, trying to lower Israeli soldiers down on a rope. On either side there was tear gas being thrown in from the boats, canisters which they were firing from a sort of gun. One man was shot in the top of the head from the helicopter. He collapsed on the ground. I snatched a microphone from one of the Turkish reporters to say one man had been killed. As I did that another man was shot. Those people died instantly.

Until that point I had not yet seen an Israeli soldier on deck. As far as I am concerned, it’s a lie to say they only started shooting on deck. Only then did I see an Israeli soldier on deck.

The men who were dead had been fired on from above…

Afterwards, I saw two things on deck that shocked me. There was a Malaysian man sitting in front of me to the right. His hands were tied behind his back, but his hands had gone blue. He pleaded with the soldiers to release him or to loosen his cuffs, but they kept saying no. After the fourth time of pleading with the guy, the soldier went up to him and said “OK” and then tightened it. The man gave out a huge scream, a spine-chilling scream I will never forget. It was only when the superior came later, three hours later, that he was released.

The other thing that shocked me was how the soldiers would walk up and down and kick people lying there. One man, who was Palestinian, was old and had diabetes. He was not very healthy. He requested to go to the toilet on numerous occasions but was refused.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/kidnapped-by-israel-and-abandoned-by-britain-1992518.html

Afterwards, I saw two things on deck that shocked me. There was a Malaysian man sitting in front of me to the right. His hands were tied behind his back, but his hands had gone blue. He pleaded with the soldiers to release him or to loosen his cuffs, but they kept saying no. After the fourth time of pleading with the guy, the soldier went up to him and said “OK” and then tightened it. The man gave out a huge scream, a spine-chilling scream I will never forget. It was only when the superior came later, three hours later, that he was released.

The other thing that shocked me was how the soldiers would walk up and down and kick people lying there. One man, who was Palestinian, was old and had diabetes. He was not very healthy. He requested to go to the toilet on numerous occasions but was refused.

Afterwards, I saw two things on deck that shocked me. There was a Malaysian man sitting in front of me to the right. His hands were tied behind his back, but his hands had gone blue. He pleaded with the soldiers to release him or to loosen his cuffs, but they kept saying no. After the fourth time of pleading with the guy, the soldier went up to him and said “OK” and then tightened it. The man gave out a huge scream, a spine-chilling scream I will never forget. It was only when the superior came later, three hours later, that he was released.

The other thing that shocked me was how the soldiers would walk up and down and kick people lying there. One man, who was Palestinian, was old and had diabetes. He was not very healthy. He requested to go to the toilet on numerous occasions but was refused.

Afterwards, I saw two things on deck that shocked me. There was a Malaysian man sitting in front of me to the right. His hands were tied behind his back, but his hands had gone blue. He pleaded with the soldiers to release him or to loosen his cuffs, but they kept saying no. After the fourth time of pleading with the guy, the soldier went up to him and said “OK” and then tightened it. The man gave out a huge scream, a spine-chilling scream I will never forget. It was only when the superior came later, three hours later, that he was released.

The other thing that shocked me was how the soldiers would walk up and down and kick people lying there. One man, who was Palestinian, was old and had diabetes. He was not very healthy. He requested to go to the toilet on numerous occasions but was refused.

Afterwards, I saw two things on deck that shocked me. There was a Malaysian man sitting in front of me to the right. His hands were tied behind his back, but his hands had gone blue. He pleaded with the soldiers to release him or to loosen his cuffs, but they kept saying no. After the fourth time of pleading with the guy, the soldier went up to him and said “OK” and then tightened it. The man gave out a huge scream, a spine-chilling scream I will never forget. It was only when the superior came later, three hours later, that he was released.

The other thing that shocked me was how the soldiers would walk up and down and kick people lying there. One man, who was Palestinian, was old and had diabetes. He was not very healthy. He requested to go to the toilet on numerous occasions but was refused.

Afterwards, I saw two things on deck that shocked me. There was a Malaysian man sitting in front of me to the right. His hands were tied behind his back, but his hands had gone blue. He pleaded with the soldiers to release him or to loosen his cuffs, but they kept saying no. After the fourth time of pleading with the guy, the soldier went up to him and said “OK” and then tightened it. The man gave out a huge scream, a spine-chilling scream I will never forget. It was only when the superior came later, three hours later, that he was released.

The other thing that shocked me was how the soldiers would walk up and down and kick people lying there. One man, who was Palestinian, was old and had diabetes. He was not very healthy. He requested to go to the toilet on numerous occasions but was refused.

Afterwards, I saw two things on deck that shocked me. There was a Malaysian man sitting in front of me to the right. His hands were tied behind his back, but his hands had gone blue. He pleaded with the soldiers to release him or to loosen his cuffs, but they kept saying no. After the fourth time of pleading with the guy, the soldier went up to him and said “OK” and then tightened it. The man gave out a huge scream, a spine-chilling scream I will never forget. It was only when the superior came later, three hours later, that he was released.

The other thing that shocked me was how the soldiers would walk up and down and kick people lying there. One man, who was Palestinian, was old and had diabetes. He was not very healthy. He requested to go to the toilet on numerous occasions but was refused.

Afterwards, I saw two things on deck that shocked me. There was a Malaysian man sitting in front of me to the right. His hands were tied behind his back, but his hands had gone blue. He pleaded with the soldiers to release him or to loosen his cuffs, but they kept saying no. After the fourth time of pleading with the guy, the soldier went up to him and said “OK” and then tightened it. The man gave out a huge scream, a spine-chilling scream I will never forget. It was only when the superior came later, three hours later, that he was released.

The other thing that shocked me was how the soldiers would walk up and down and kick people lying there. One man, who was Palestinian, was old and had diabetes. He was not very healthy. He requested to go to the toilet on numerous occasions but was refused.

Bohemian, since you keep ignoring the laws I’ve cited and the explanation I’ve given, I’ve decided to supply you with articles explaining what I’ve already said to you. Hopefully, these will get through.

" “Let’s talk about the transfer of supplies over land. Why can Israel decide what goes in and what can’t?”

Ms. Weiss Maudi responded, “In order to answer that question, we need to think about the events of the past few years. In 2005, Israel completed its disengagement plan and completely withdrew from the Gaza Strip, so that no Israeli military or civilian presence remained in the Gaza Strip. The disengagement plan ended Israel’s effective control of the Gaza Strip after almost 40 years of effective control… What currently exists is a state of armed conflict.”

She added that though Israel had hoped “that the disengagement would be used as a springboard for more positive relations with our neighbors in Gaza, in actuality, the opposite occurred. Instead of positive relations happening, the terrorist organization of Hamas seized power in Gaza and stepped up the rocket and mortar attacks on Israeli communities and towns in Israel proper adjacent to the Gaza Strip.”

“Therefore, in light of the Hamas-sponsored attacks on Israeli civilian targets, Israel undertook a number of measures against the Hamas regime. One of these measures is the imposition of economic sanctions against the Hamas regime in Gaza… Under international law, every state gets to decide what goes in and out of its borders. Also under international law, every state gets to decide whether it wants to forge economic relationships with any entity or state. Similarly, a country has a sovereign right to decide whether to impose economic sanctions on any enemy state or entity.

“I want to emphasize that this is not an act of collective punishment, but is rather a measure to put pressure on a regime that is attacking Israel’s citizens. Under international law Israel has a basic right to defend and protect its citizens.

“Such economic penalties have been imposed throughout modern history. There are many examples of bilateral sanctions: the U.S. against Syria and against Libya, for instance… In the international arena these are considered a legitimate and effective tool to exert pressure on terrorist or other regimes, such as that of the Hamas terrorist regime.”

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/137728

"The legality of blockades as a response to acts of war is not subject to serious doubt. When the United States blockaded Cuba during the missile crisis, the State Department issued an opinion declaring the blockade to be lawful. This despite the fact that Cuba had not engaged in any act of belligerence against the United States. Other nations have similarly enforced naval blockades to assure their own security.

The second issue is whether it is lawful to enforce a legal blockade in international waters. Again, law and practice are clear. If there is no doubt that the offending ships have made a firm determination to break the blockade, then the blockade may be enforced before the offending ships cross the line into domestic waters. Again the United States and other Western countries have frequently boarded ships at high sea in order to assure their security.

Third, were those onboard the ship simply innocent noncombatants? The act of breaking a military siege is itself a military act. And let there be no mistake about the purpose of this flotilla; it was decidedly not to provide humanitarian aid to the residents of Gaza, but rather to break the entirely lawful Israeli military blockade. The proof lies in the fact that both Israel and Egypt offered to have all the food, medicine and other humanitarian goods sent to Gaza, if the boats agreed to land in an Israeli or Egyptian port. That humanitarian offer was soundly rejected by the leaders of the flotilla, who publicly announced: “This mission is not about delivering humanitarian supplies, it’s about breaking Israel’s siege on 1.5 million Palestinians.”

It is a close question whether “civilians” who agree to participate in the breaking of a military blockade have become combatants. They are certainly something different from pure innocents, and perhaps they are also somewhat different from pure armed combatants.

Finally, we come to the issue of the right of self-defense engaged in by Israeli soldiers who were attacked by activists on the boat. There can be little doubt that the moment any person on the boat picked up a weapon and began to attack Israeli soldiers, they lost their status as innocent civilians.

Even if that were not the case, under ordinary civilian rules of self-defense, every Israeli soldier had the right to protect himself and his colleagues from attack by knife- and pipe-wielding assailants. Lest there be any doubt that Israeli soldiers were under attack, simply view the online video and watch the so-called peaceful activists pummel Israeli soldiers with metal rods.

Every individual has the right to repel such attacks by the use of lethal force. That was especially true in this case, when the soldiers were so outnumbered on the deck of the ship. Recall that Israel’s rules of engagement required its soldiers to fire only paintballs unless their lives were in danger. "

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2010/06/02/2010-06-02_israel_obeyed_international_law_legally_the_gaza_flotilla_conflict_is_an_openand.html

"Israel and Hamas are in a state of armed conflict. That much is clear to everyone who has looked at the situation, from the General Assembly to the Human Rights Council in its Goldstone Report, which has stressed the need to conform to the laws of war. Accordingly, the accusation of piracy is inapt, since under both customary law and Article 101 of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea that applies only to acts done for private gain. Israel’s acts must be analyzed in terms of the law of naval warfare.

A blockade of an enemy’s coast is an established military tactic. It is recognized as a means at the Security Council’s disposal under Article 42 of the UN Charter where collective action is authorized. Likewise, as made clear in Article 539 of the Canadian Forces manual Counter-Insurgency Operations, it is an action that one belligerent can potentially impose on another, provided that the accepted conditions for the blockade are met.

The law regulating force at sea is found in several sources updating the eight conventions on the law of naval warfare adopted at the Second International Peace Conference at The Hague in 1907. These include theU.S. Naval Handbook, an equivalent U.K. publication, and Germany’s 1992 manual, Humanitarian Law in Armed Conflicts. A consolidated set of rules was issued in 1994 by the San Remo Institute of International Law in co-operation with the International Committee of the Red Cross and several national humanitarian law societies, including Canada’s.

A naval blockade is defined in Article 7.71 of the U.S. Naval Handbook as “a belligerent operation to prevent vessels and/or aircraft of all nations, enemy as well as neutral, from entering or exiting specified ports, airfields, or coastal areas belonging to, occupied by, or under the control of an enemy nation.” It is designed to stop ships from crossing a cordon separating the enemy’s coast from the high seas. It is therefore often enforced in what would otherwise be international waters approaching, but not necessarily inside, the territorial sea of the blockaded party.

The San Remo conference set the specific rules for implementing a blockade. It must be publicly declared and notification sent to all states whose vessels are likely to be nearby. Further, the blockade must be effective. International law permits no fictitious blockade designed to frighten away third-party ships.

The San Remo rules also specify that a blockade be applied with impartiality to all states whose flagged ships enter the blockaded area. It must be conducted in a way that does not block access to neighbouring states and their ports.

A maritime blockade is for security purposes only, and must allow humanitarian assistance to the civilian population. Since the ships sailing for Gaza were on a declared humanitarian mission, those on board had the right to expect that any humanitarian goods would ultimately find their way to their intended recipients. On the other hand, having announced its blockade, Israel had no obligation to take the ships’ crew at their word as to the nature of the cargo. The blockading party has the right to fashion the arrangements, including search at a nearby port, under which passage of humanitarian goods is permitted. San Remo specifies that this inspection should include supervision by a neutral party to prevent the unwarranted seizure of humanitarian supplies and the abuse of humanitarian assistance by the blockaded party.

Finally, the rule of proportionate force, applicable to all armed conflict, applies equally to a naval blockade. Blockading navies are obliged to arrest a ship rather than simply fire on it, and once its soldiers are on board an arrested ship their actions must be proportionate to the threat that they meet. While Israel appears to have met the other criteria eliminating a macro offence, here the facts will have to be gathered from witnesses and videos to determine what level of force was truly needed at the spot where the paintballs met the hammers."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/israels-naval-blockade-pitches-and-rolls-with-the-law-of-the-sea/article1589981/

Establishing blockades:

"SECTION II : METHODS OF WARFARE

Blockade

  1. A blockade shall be declared and notified to all belligerents and neutral States.

  2. The declaration shall specify the commencement, duration, location, and extent of the blockade and the period within which vessels of neutral States may leave the blockaded coastline.

  3. A blockade must be effective. The question whether a blockade is effective is a question of fact.

  4. The force maintaining the blockade may be stationed at a distance determined by military requirements.

  5. A blockade may be enforced and maintained by a combination of legitimate methods and means of warfare provided this combination does not result in acts inconsistent with the rules set out in this document.

  6. Merchant vessels believed on reasonable grounds to be breaching a blockade may be captured. Merchant vessels which, after prior warning, clearly resist capture may be attacked.

  7. A blockade must not bar access to the ports and coasts of neutral States.

  8. A blockade must be applied impartially to the vessels of all States."

"Article 42

Should the Security Council consider that measures provided for in Article 41 would be inadequate or have proved to be inadequate, it may take such action by air, sea, or land forces as may be necessary to maintain or restore international peace and security. Such action may include demonstrations, blockade, and other operations by air, sea, or land forces of Members of the United Nations."

If the ships are held to be merchant vessels:

Neutral merchant vessels

  1. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;

SECTION II : VISIT AND SEARCH OF MERCHANT VESSELS

Basic rules

  1. In exercising their legal rights in an international armed conflict at sea, belligerent warships and military aircraft have a right to visit and search merchant vessels outside neutral waters where there are reasonable grounds for suspecting that they are subject to capture.

  2. As an alternative to visit and search, a neutral merchant vessel may, with its consent, be diverted from its declared destination.

SECTION VI : CAPTURE OF NEUTRAL MERCHANT VESSELS AND GOODS

  1. Neutral merchant vessels are subject to capture outside neutral waters if they are engaged in any of the activities referred to in paragraph 67 or if it is determined as a result of visit and search or by other means, that they:

(a) are carrying contraband;
(b) are on a voyage especially undertaken with a view to the transport of individual passengers who are embodied in the armed forces of the enemy;
(c) are operating directly under enemy control, orders, charter, employment or direction;
(d) present irregular or fraudulent documents, lack necessary documents, or destroy, deface or conceal documents;
(e) are violating regulations established by a belligerent within the immediate area of naval operations; or
(f) are breaching or attempting to breach a blockade."

Even if you call them humanitarian vessels:

"SECTION III : ENEMY VESSELS AND AIRCRAFT EXEMPT FROM ATTACK

Classes of vessels exempt from attack

  1. The following classes of enemy vessels are exempt from attack:

(ii) vessels engaged in humanitarian missions, including vessels carrying supplies indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, and vessels engaged in relief actions and rescue operations;

Conditions of exemption

  1. Vessels listed in paragraph 47 are exempt from attack only if they:

(a) are innocently employed in their normal role;
(b) submit to identification and inspection when required; and

At the point in time where they refused to be inspected, they lost their exemption status and became an enemy vessel and:

SECTION IV : CAPTURE OF ENEMY VESSELS AND GOODS

  1. Subject to the provisions of paragraph 136, enemy vessels, whether merchant or otherwise, and goods on board such vessels may be captured outside neutral waters. Prior exercise of visit and search is not required."

Israel had the legal right to stop and identify a ship it knew was attempting to breach its blockade and when they refused to be stopped and inspected, they became an enemy ship. No matter how you classify the ships, merchant or humanitarian, they were required by law to submit to a stop and search. In fact, the first five ships agreed to this, it was only the last ship that violently refused and that’s why the only people who died were on the last boat. Israel clearly followed the law here.

But you know what? I hope Israel does get forced to end its blockade. Because I know that within a few weeks, maybe months, Hamas will commit some suicide bombings or shoot some more rockets into Israel and everyone will remember who the real enemy is and why the blockade was there in the first place and then Israel will be able to reinstate the blockade but with the international community’s support. It will also make it easier to get the sanctions on Iran done.

Legality apart (I agree with you), the blockade is plain stupid form Israel’s point of view: its just stirring up anti-Israeli feelings in the region and delivering hundreds of unemployed youngsters to fundamentalists, just like the WW1 British blockade of Germany delivered the youth to the Nazis (although Israel’s blockade is far, far milder).

So, why doesn’t Israel stick to aerial bombing of armories within Gaza (after announcing the area to be bombed half an hour before), bounties and special forces to kill those who fire rockets, while at the same time allowing unhampered trade with Gaza (good old carrot and stick)? Don’t you think this would be the solution that would come nearer to taming conflict?

"Legality apart (I agree with you), the blockade is plain stupid form Israel’s point of view: its just stirring up anti-Israeli feelings in the region and delivering hundreds of unemployed youngsters to fundamentalists, just like the WW1 British blockade of Germany delivered the youth to the Nazis (although Israel’s blockade is far, far milder).

So, why doesn’t Israel stick to aerial bombing of armories within Gaza (after announcing the area to be bombed half an hour before), bounties and special forces to kill those who fire rockets, while at the same time allowing unhampered trade with Gaza (good old carrot and stick)? Don’t you think this would be the solution that would come nearer to taming conflict?"

That might be what happens. I haven’t heard anything definite but the odds are good they’ll at least ease the blockade some. It’s also unclear whether Netanyahu is going to agree to the UN investigation or not.

"United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon had suggested establishing a panel that would be headed by former New Zealand prime minister Geoffrey Palmer and include representatives from Turkey, Israel and the United States, an Israeli official said earlier in Jerusalem.

Netanyahu discussed the proposal for a multinational panel with Ban in a telephone call on Saturday but told cabinet ministers from his right-wing Likud party on Sunday that Israel was exploring other options, political sources said…

Netanyahu also discussed the Israeli blockade on Gaza, saying that discussions surrounding the easing of the blockade had begun before the flotilla ever set sail.

“Our desire is to facilitate the transfer of civilian and humanitarian goods to the civilian population, while preventing the transfer of weapons and warfare materials.” He added that “the provocative flotilla will not stop us from discussing this, and we are considering proposals on the topic made by friendly nations.”
The prime minister further told the cabinet that he spoke with U.S. Vice President Joe Biden over the weekend as well as the prime ministers of Greece and Bulgaria."

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-still-balking-at-external-gaza-flotilla-probe-despite-growing-world-pressure-1.294559

[DELETED: USE ISSUES FORUM]

bloom, are you aware of the fact that legal scholars, not just libertarian kooks like me, try to base law on reason and not solely on who has the guns? I asked you what you fault Hitler for as a Jew, and all you said was “killing my people”. Is there anything you find wrong with his policies besides that your people weren’t “the ones with the guns”.

+1

This post should have been the first and last one in this thread.

Magnus: “The IDF was probably using automatic weapons that were set to shoot in burst fire which is pretty standard in any military operation.”

Shows how much you know about “standard military operation”. Burst mode may be standard use for the A-team. Not for real military operations.

neither Magnus nor DD5 are going to convince on this (quite minor point )without some evidence either way it seems…

DD5: “Shows how much you know about “standard military operation”. Burst mode may be standard use for the A-team. Not for real military operations.”

I said it was SET to BURST(ie. 3 rounds at a time) not FULL AUTO and there is a difference. If they were using full auto there would have been more than 10 deaths. Long range they would use single shot but this was definitely a CQB situation.

I have video proof that they used burst fire. 40 seconds into this video you hear a 3 round burst followed by single shots.

I am not defending the IDF and I hold no sympathy for the people flotilla. My only point was about the notion of shooting to disable. When deadly force is used it is used to kill because your life is threatened and not to disable. You can be the judge on whether or not the IDF were threatened to justifiably use deadly force.

And the one-sided discussion continues, it seems:

Actual news:

“I said it was SET to BURST(ie. 3 rounds at a time) not FULL AUTO and there is a difference.”

I don’t hear any burst. At about 2:42 you hear 3 quick shots. That’s not some automatic burst. That’s just a well trained shooter. These guys won’t use bursts since they are not as effective as single shots released by a well trained combatant. But as Nir said, this is a minor out of topic issue, which without evidence, will go nowhere. It’s really not all that important so I’m not going to search right now for some evidence to present to you.

I love the double bit of propaganda in this Israeli damage control. Goebells must be running this stuff.

  1. label them as ‘peace activists’ (meaning some pretense at being limp wristed women or hippies) in an ironic sense, rather than in the bigger picture of the struggle for peace itself in this political occupation.

  2. make their guilt/innocence contingent upon reaction/docility, respectively.

The point is to prove the absolute impossibility of being philosophically peaceful, and promote the cynicism of constant war and terror as natural state of affairs. It also promotes the double standard that one side aught to give into demands and the resistance is simply unreasonable. If only Palestinians would peacefully accept Israeli action, an agreement could be set. The ones who make the laws and are subject to break them with immunity wonder why the ones who don’t don’t want to follow them.

The shots at 2:42 which was not what I was referring to were single fire but the shots at the 0:40 second mark were burst. I don’t even understand what you are trying to get at. Its like me telling you to look a picture on a book on page 30 and then you telling me I don’t see a picture on page 60. This has nothing to do with my point which was firearms are used to kill not to disable.

As for the topic itself. There is a whole web of issues in play and nothing can be established unless all the facts are presented which will likely never happen. You have two parties that are presenting two different stories. You have video that might be edited and with no context. Here are the issues that need to be clarified.

  1. Was the radio request to the captain valid? Since they were going to Gaza port and the Israelis don’t own the property rights to that port as far as I know then the request is invalid.

  2. Was the raid on the ship valid? Based on number 1, no. If they were heading towards an Israeli port then, yes.(Assuming the State of Israel has legitimate property rights to their own ports)

  3. Was the violence Justified on either side. It all depends on the sequence of events and the facts which isn’t clear. The activist had the right to tell the IDF to leave. The activist had the right to defend the property only if the IDF presented itself as a clear and overt threat.

a. The IDF claims it came in with paint ball guns with the intent of just inspecting the ship and in this case a beating with knives and sticks would not be justified since the punishment would not be proportional. Just like you wouldn’t beat someone who entered your yard without doing anything to endanger you.

b. The the activist claim they were shot at before the IDF roped down to the deck in which case they would have been justified in using violence to defend themselves.

Unless you have full unedited video from start to finish you can’t really determine what happened. Israelis claim they came in with paint ball guns just to inspect but you can’t determine from the videos whether or not they were and it would be easy to provide videos given the amount of cameras on site. The Activist claim they were fired upon before boarding. Again no video is provided showing this when there was video inside the flotilla. The IDF could have confiscated the videos but why are there onboard flotilla videos online.

On the other hand the IDF have done raids on ships before and after this raid with no incidents. The activist also show evidence that they were prepared to resist since they had sling shots, flash bangs, gas masks, knives and pipes as well as videos of them claiming to want to be a martyr(Shahid).

What happened on the flotilla was not unexpected to the activist. Everybody knows that when it comes to the state they are self justified in their actions(citing international law or their own). For example, if the police came to my house with a search warrant should I be sympathized with if I decided to attack the police and consequently get shot. I may be justified in defending my property but it won’t really get me anywhere to resist because most people recognize state law and authority over property rights. Now if they came to my house with the intent to assassinate me then that is a different story but I don’t see why it would make logical sense for them to do that.

Either way you have to get people to accept the merits of property rights over the state and being violent or provocative is not gonna help the cause. I especially don’t sympathize with the cause for a palestinian state. A state is a state and if it is a religious state they want things are even worse since not only is the state the authority but an authority from “God” which is unquestionable. Good luck trying to change things when questioning the state is considered blasphemy and an attack on their faith.

So to me the flotilla incident seams to be standard inspection gone wrong because if their intent was to kill people there are FAR more efficient ways to do that given their arsenal. If I were the state of Israel on a homicidal warpath I would use tech that jams all communication, bombard the ship, and then pick off any survivors with infrared cameras since the survivors will stand out like sore thumbs in the cold sea in which nobody would know what had happened. Just another ship that mysteriously disappeared.

I hope that Iran starts nuking Israel.

“I hope that Iran starts nuking Israel.”

I think that’s exactly what Iran intends to do so you might just get your wish.

Where in the Constitution is the power of judicial review given to the Supreme Court?

I hope that Iran starts nuking Israel.

I’m hoping thats irony