Is BitCoin the currency of the future?

It’s not simply just to “encourage adoption”. The market must generally accept BitCoins solely based on properties other than A, then property A may allow it to become superior than other currencies currently available on the marketplace.

No, this logic is perfectly sound. Speculators will bite if they rationally calculate that they will win in the end. However, they usually engage in the speculation only on one condition: That they have information that the seller of the asset does not have, that will lead the speculator to believe that the they will profit from making the bet. Note that this is much different than a gambler, as the gambler places his money down in the hopes that he’ll win, but it’s guaranteed that the house is against him.

If you would like to test this theory, do the following: go advertise a deal to someone where if someone buys a pair of earrings from you, then they get a ticket. If enough people buy earrings from you, you agree to give them $10,000 towards buying a new car. Note that you don’t tell people how much “enough” is. Now you’ll get some people interested in the earrings themselves for various reasons, you’ll get some people who buy them like a lottery ticket, but I’ll be willing to speculate that you’ll never get rational market speculators to buy your earrings merely for the hope of getting that $10k. Unfortunately, after a while and quite a few people are on, your market participants get tired that the promised $10k ever materialises, and so they discard their tickets. Eventually, the only people left will be the few holdouts who believe that if only they could get the erarings sales back going, everyone would be rewarded a nice $10,000 reward. In fact, some people would come to think you were a scam artist, trying to sell something that could never be attainable.

This is the same problem for BitCoin: Speculators can’t engage properly in this trade because they have no way of calculating how many market participants would be required to pay them off. So you’re left with a bunch of curious techies and some gamblers. But you’ll never get what you really want. And even if you could calulate the probability, you may not like the exchange price that it would take to get a speculator interested.

And at this point you’ve fallen totally off the wagon. People don’t work or excerise as speculation of a greater future outcome. Every single worker that I know does so because they have a contractual agreement with their employer to be compensated for the work that they do. This is acting with near certainty of reward. Same goes for exercise. People who exercise do so because they can be nearly certain that they will obtain benefits.

Also, in almost all speculative ventures that one comes across, they only need 1 additional market particpant to agree for the speculation to be profitable: even gamblers only need 1 house to lose for you to win. Normal market speculators only need one person to accept the trade at the target price for the speculation to pay off. This goes for both oil futures and baseball cards. Your acceptance scenario requires that an enoumous and undefined number of market participants also engage in this speculative play with you, which is an extraordinarily difficult task. One that, had I had the education in math and probability theory, I could likely say is astronomically improbable.

I tend not to participate in things with astronomical odds. :slight_smile:

The true measure of any currency goes back to the same thing everytime. How much will a prostitute ask for when she has rendered her services. If that said prostitute doesn’t take Bicoin for her sevices, then Bitcoin is really worthless.

Have you tried it? I’d bet that it’s not much more difficult to find a hooker that would take payment in bitcoin than finding one in Chicago that takes Euros. Drugs are apparently easy to get with bitcoin these days.

I was referring to legal Prostitutes. In Nevada they do take Euro’s.

Well, did you ask?

Just found that Hazlitt has a few words about money relevant to bitcoin.

One would think he had the gift of prophesy. Though written in 1978, he seems to be speaking right to the bitcoin crowd.

A long-established government money
has an established purchasing power, even though additional paper-
money issues reduce it. But how does a private issuer establish the
value of his money unit in the first place? Why would anybody take
it? Who would accept his certificates for their own goods or ser-
vices? And at what rate? Against what would the private banker
issue his money? With what would the would-be user buy it from
him? Into what would the issuer keep it constantly convertible?
These are the essential questions.

To assure a dependable, definite, and precise value for anything
in terms of anything else, the first must be constantly convertible
into the second. Under a gold standard each currency unit is con-
stantly convertible, on demand, into a precise weight of gold. This
not only assures a precise value for the pound, for example, and
a precise value for the dollar; it also assures a precise “parity” ratio
between the pound and the dollar, or any other two currencies…

But you cannot make a currency convertible into an abstraction.
You cannot make a currency convertible into an index number…
A private issuer cannot assure any specific or definite value for his
money unit by limiting the volume of its issuance. There is no
fixed and dependable relationship or ratio between the two.

The crucial question in the mind of the holder, or the accepter, will
always be: What can I be confident of getting in exchange for this?

[Note: the bold type was done by me; it is all normal type in the book].

Nice find! I added it to the description box of my video ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoK8HXMSsNg ).

Here are the others I’ve found:

“To be spontaneously adopted as a medium of exchange, a commodity must be desired for its nonmonetary services (for its own sake) and be marketable, that is, it must be widely bought and sold. The prices that are initially being paid for its nonmonetary services enable prospective buyers to estimate the future prices at which one can reasonably expect to resell it. The prices paid for its nonmonetary use are, so to speak, the empirical basis for its use in indirect exchange. It would be extremely risky to buy a commodity for indirect exchange without knowing its past prices; as a consequence, the spontaneous emergence of a medium of exchange is virtually impossible whenever such knowledge is lacking. On the other hand, when it exists, then there can arise a monetary demand for the commodity in question. The monetary demand then adds to the original nonmonetary demand, so that the price of the money-commodity contains a monetary component and a nonmonetary component. Although in a developed economy the former is likely to outweigh the latter quite substantially, IT IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND THAT THE MONETARY USE OF A COMMODITY ULTIMATELY DEPENDS ON ITS NONMONETARY USE [emphasis mine]. The medieval scholastics called money a res fungibilis et primo usu consumptibilis. It was in the very nature of money to be a marketable thing that had its primary use in consumption.”

-The Ethics of Money Production (by Jörg Guido Hülsmann), p23.

&

A most important truth about money now emerges from our discussion: money is a commodity. Learning this simple lesson is one of the world’s most important tasks. So often have people talked about money as something much more or less than this. MONEY IS NOT AN ABSTRACT UNIT OF ACCOUNT, DIVORCEABLE FROM A CONCRETE GOOD; IT IS NOT A USELESS TOKEN ONLY GOOD FOR EXCHANGING; IT IS NOT A “CLAIM ON SOCIETY”; IT IS NOT A GUARANTEE OF A FIXED PRICE LEVEL. IT IS SIMPLY A COMMODITY [emphasis mine]. It differs from other commodities in being demanded mainly as a medium of exchange. But aside from this, it is a commodity–and, like all commodities, it has an existing stock, it faces demands by people to buy and hold it, etc. Like all commodities, its “price”–in terms of other goods–is determined by the interaction of its total supply, or stock, and the total demand by people to buy and hold it.

-What Has Government Done to Our Money? (by Murray N. Rothbard)

^^^ This is something I have been working to explain to the Bitcoin fanatics. I’ve even had one try to tell me that the stuff he bought in that Secondlife thing with his bitcoins were worth more than my tangible good’s in my real house. I really did not know how to reply to this at first. Then I asked him if he was still thirsty after he drank one of his secondlife beers, and how many girls he’s brought back to his pad.

Actually, yes I did. I asked some of the girl’s when I ran into them in Vegas two months ago. I did not procure their services, as I’m happily married. They did confide in me that they take anything tradeable on FOREX. at an adjusted conversion rate. Obviously if you use Won, they do some profit taking.

Only the ignorant claim that Bitcoin is money. It’s not. It’s a pure currency. An artifical medium of exchange. That’s all.

TBH It’s not clear that you understand what currency or money is.

It is however definately artificial IE fake.

From my perspective, It’s not clear that either could really be explained to you. I’ll admit up front, I’m certain that I’m incapable of correcting your particular distortions and misunderstandings.

Yes, it is artificial. Fake if you insist. Just like any paper currency in the world, as well as most of the paper trading derivitives, whether they are trading promises of gold or silver or simply promises.

Just heard about this. At first glance I thought someone had adopted a cluster computing model like folding@home that allowed people to buy and sell timeshares on their workstation or server (something which would actually be useful). But apparently all this system does is have your computer make arbitrary calculations until a ‘block’ is created and then you get some points for that. Sorry, but if I was going to be that lame I would simply farm items for some random online game and earn cash that can actually be used to make transactions.

In due time, all shall be true belivers. Be it Bitcoin or some future derivitive, there is no putting this back in the bottle.

It is entirely likely that you will see a derivitive. I could see MAstercard/visa card integrationof BTC mechanisms. I could see people having the technological means to place transactions inhouse, without even the need of a Mastercard/Visa company existing, other then to provide credit.

The difference in the derivative though will be one of two.

A) A digital currency backed by something solid. Stock or commodity.

B) BTC continuing to be used as it currently is, nothing more then a laundering mechanism. This certainly has it’s value on the market but this doesn’t make it a money.

If I take 10 dollar bills. Place them in socks, then transport those dollars in socks to friends. The socks do not become some type of currency, instead they are just the transport mechanism. All BTC’s could be seen for is a way to move dollars around securely and anonymously. All the economic calculation and exchange ratio’s however are still in dollars or some other currency.

The problem with BTC advocates is that they get childishly defensive when we point out that BTC’s are not acting as a currency or a money. Ironicly much of BTC’s own documentation explains this. Yet some of you guys get all fired up as if we’re making some type of personal attack on you. As if we’re passing judgement on the utility BTC’s have to offer. Your missing the point of the critique. Not being a money isn’t a bad thing. Stop taking the critique as a personal attack. The key positive benefits BTC’s are complimentary to any money or currency.

Filc; I predict that you, personally; will one day buy, hold and transact in Bitcoin (or it’s successor) without regard to whether it’s a currency in it’s own right or not.

ok?

Whether or not you consider Bitcoin an independent currency or not is irrelevent. There will come a day that you will use it as such. Then, as now, the distinction is semantics.

Bitcoin will only become a currency if a government or government-like entity (UN, IMF, BIS, etc.) were to adopt it and promulgate it as a legal currency and the solution to our economic woes.

Clayton -

The use or application of various technologies found in bitcoins adopt are irrelevent. The point of the last 30 pages is show that your confused as to what a currency or money is. The quoted statement above is an exemplar of that fact. When you say we will use it as a currency, your confusing it’s underlying function. The discussion isn’t about whether or not bitcoin technology could offers enhancement to already existing moneys(Depending on consumer demand for such feature). The point is that BTC is not a currency or a money, it’s a laundering mechanism for real currencies and moneys.

The whole point of the last 30 pages is to show that you are abusing words and semantics. Stop doing that as your confusing people about the nature of money and bitcoins all together by conflating them. Also stop taking it so defensively.

I’m not the “defensive” one.

Still, it seems that more and more of your peers disagree with your assesments.

http://cs702.wordpress.com/2011/05/29/on-the-potential-adoption-and-price-appreciation-of-bitcoin-in-the-long-run/