Is Capitalism a Ponzi scam?

Economics Political Theory
101

If you are really serious about saving…

Share a single bedroom. Two or even three people per bedroom. $150-200/mo

Eating a diet of eggs, oatmeal, a simple multivitamin and fish oil gets this down to $75-115/mo

Take the bus! Bus pass $30/mo

These are killer. I myself am having many health problems… although if I were really serious about investing I could probably put most of them off for 10 years. Human beings can get by on the above living style.

I’ll let you keep this assumption… but after a couple of years in the private sector a motivated person can break this easily.

So my tabulation would be 1120 - 175 - 90 - 30 - 100 = $725, or 65% of your paycheck.

I count the internet as more than apt entertainment. My internet plan is $30/mo. So I’m still at $695. Computers are a one time expense of $100 if you buy them used… so I’ll include it in the generic bills thingy?

Clothes can be bought on the cheap at goodwill.

3000/695 = 4.3 months to open up a CD @ 3%.

At the rate you calculated, the CD pays off in 33 years. I think there are probably better investments out there… Regardless close to $700/month is a good amount. I do not think the average poor person lives this way. You have to live below your means to accumulate savings. They choose to live right at their means. High time preference I guess.

102

I missed this on the first pass.

You have no clue what poverty, economic hardship or a meaningful life is if you think it necessitates trivial entertainment expenses.

Come talk to me when you are near eating out of a garbage can and have nowhere to sleep in the middle of a subzero winter.

103

Sounds like leisure time to me. People who engage in leisure when they don’t have the productive capacity to afford it are fools, not economically disadvantaged

That will win you a lot of friends in the worker community lol. I don’t neccesarily disagree with you, but I would say more along the lines of “economically disadvantaged fools.” The rich man’s son has no worries about these problems. Whether that is right or wrong (or neither imo), it still puts him at an advantage.

Leisure and a better standard of living must be earned, either by increasing productivity through experience and skills development, allowing for a higher wage, or working multiple unskilled jobs to compensate for a lack of productivity

Once again, tell that to the rich man’s son. He doesnt earn his standard of living (unless you call having rich parents work lol). And also once again, that won’t win you many friends amongst workers; “you must work 16hrs a day, 5 days a week for 10 years if you want a hundredth the standard of living of Chelsea Clinton.” Sounds like fun…

Also, poor people don’t need money for gas, they can’t afford a car. They walk or take the bus.

Only an option for inner city poor. Rural poor need cars.

104

Two or even three people per bedroom. $150-200/mo

maybe in the ghetto. And statistics show that’s a community that you can build social mobility in.. /sarcasm

Any kind of adequate housing is roughly $250-$400/month per person.

Take the bus!

And if they dont live where there are busses?

But this is all beside the point. I said it can be done, and people do it every day. But you mistake ignorance for lack of desire. And that, imho, is a fatal flaw. The point is that it is not easy, It also is not an attractive proposition to many people. Many people do not find a life of work, work, work until you’re 40 as any kind of spiritually, or psychollogically uplifting life.

105

You have no clue what poverty, economic hardship or a meaningful life is if you think it necessitates trivial entertainment expenses.

Come talk to me when you are near eating out of a garbage can and have nowhere to sleep in the middle of a subzero winter.

Im sorry if that was you, but I find this comment very insulting. To act like you know who I am, and then treat my like I am some pampered richie… nvm. I wont pursue it.

I know what waiting in line at food banks is, I have done it. I know what getting laughed at cuz you wear run down clothes from the thrift store feels like. I know what it feels like to be snickered at cuz you get free lunch. I know what it is like to hear you parents constantly screaming at each other because, even tho your father works 10-12 hrs/day, 6 days a week, you just can’t pay the bills. I have seen social mobility through hard work, it was my life.

It wasn’t easy. It wasn’t fun. And it surprises me that I am not a drug addict because of it.. like soo many of the kids in my community. Once again, I am sorry if you had to go through that. And I am uplifted at the fact that you made it (assuming you are talking about yourself). Congratulations. But not everyone is that industrious, or smart. Ignorance != lack of desire.

106

ugh, sorry to take up four consecutive slots but.. how do you multi quote w/o having to edit?

107

What worker community? Is that something you read about in a pamphlet or heard about on YouTube?

That’s good, because you’ve already made quite a fool of yourself pretending to understand classes you have never experienced.

Certainly it does. Bully for the father who can provide a good start for his children. Hurrah for the children who are fortunate to have come from such good breeding stock.

I think I am talking to one now, because you strike me as someone who has never had to do a day’s hard labour in order to eat.

It is earned by someone. Your ignorant criticism applies equally to the charity recipient.

When you grow up, you will realize that life is not supposed to be fun. You aren’t born entitled to fun. No one is obligated to make your life fun, and much of human existence has been spent in complete misery, short life spans and periods of filth and lack of food. I have been a worker all of my life. Don’t tell me about winning friends among workers. Survival and achievement are not popularity contests.

Rural poor have nowhere to go. They live where the work is (or is not).

108

Please do pursue it cinderalla. Tell me all about your experience with hardship. Tell me about working two jobs to put food on the table for your family. Condescend to me again about being popular with the “worker community”.

I don’t care if you’re insulted. I find your posts insulting when you make claims about what it is like to struggle, when you can’t even imagine how to live on a shoestring budget, let alone survive with nothing but the clothes on your back.

I’m not sorry I had to go through it. It kept me from growing up to be an idiot like some of the people I meet on the internet, who think they know something they know nothing about.

That’s not my problem. That’s not the rich kid’s problem either.

109

That’s good, because you’ve already made quite a fool of yourself pretending to understand classes you have never experienced.

I think I am talking to one now, because you strike me as someone who has never had to do a day’s hard labour in order to eat.

When you grow up, you will realize that life is not supposed to be fun.

If we were face to face, it would be hard for me to hold to the NAP principle right now. HAHA, luckily we’re not. But you are pretty insulting sir. And you tell me to grow up…

Bully for the father who can provide a good start for his children.

I agree

Hurrah for the children who are fortunate to have come from such good breeding stock.

And screw you if you made an unfortunate choice in parents.. right? Social darwinism much?

Your ignorant criticism applies equally to the charity recipient

Ok.. so? And also… are you sure it was criticism, or just a statement of observation? Hmm, I thought I said it wasnt bad that rich kids have a good start.. maybe you missed that at first pass too…

much of human existence has been spent in complete misery, short life spans and periods of filth and lack of food. I have been a worker all of my life. Don’t tell me about winning friends among workers. Survival and achievement are not popularity contests.

Your positive outlook makes me want to sing from the highest mountain… /sarcasm

Look, I am just going to back out of this thread as you have made it into an insult fest. I am trying my hardest to respect the austrian school, and come to understand it (as a left-leaning individual) but… nvm. I am out of this thread. You are insulting sir. Good day.

110

My last comment (probably, unless we can pursue civil discourse) would be; I am sure if I spoke to you how you speak to me I would still have an active account on this site.. ./sarcasm.

111

Does anyone choose their parents?

Right, because life should be all about making you feel good.

This has nothing to do with Austrianism. This has to do with you being a “left-leaning individual” who like many leftists, holds positions of complete ignorance about the social issues they want to beat others over the head with. You got called on it.

112

The question isn’t who had a harder life, the question is what system allows the fewest people to have the hardest life. Did America get rich just because we have had the most benevolent leaders? The entire focus on singular circumstances ignores all of economics, Bastiat is brought to mind, the good economist studies the unseen as well as the seen.

If you are interested in learning Austrian Economics, I advise you to read Economics for Real People by Gene Callahan. If you are interested in the methodology, I advise Economic Science and the Austrian Method by Hoppe.

113

We can have a civil discourse when you stop pretending to know something you do not. I’ve never terminated someone’s account for disagreeing with me.

114

Please show me where I pretended to know something, or beat you over the head with anything. I merely stated an observation, and because it defended the poor as partially victims of circumstance and ignorance (I even acknowledged that they are to fault as well, AND acknowledged you as a special case that deserves recognition and admiration. Your situation should serve as a role-model to all.) you flew off the handle.

I would ask you to ask yourself; why does defense of the poor anger you so much?

115

The question isn’t who had a harder life, the question is what system allows the fewest people to have the hardest life. Did America get rich just because we have had the most benevolent leaders? The entire focus on singular circumstances ignores all of economics, Bastiat is brought to mind, the good economist studies the unseen as well as the seen.

No, freedom of expression (economically, politically, socially, and culturally) is what I would say did it. I dont really think anyone here would disagree with that. I just merely want people to stop thinking ignorance = lack of desire or laziness.

f you are interested in learning Austrian Economics, I advise you to read Economics for Real People by Gene Callahan. If you are interested in the methodology, I advise Economic Science and the Austrian Method by Hoppe.

I have been reading Human Action sparingly (I have a printed version in my b-room so I can read it while pooping :smiley: ). But if these will provide a shorter introduction I would gladly check them out.

116

I have already done that. Go back and re-read my posts.

I have no problem with defending the poor. You weren’t defending the poor. You were promoting a stereo-type about something which you know nothing about.

117

Freedom of expression itself couldn’t stop the FED and the State to stimulate the destruction of american economy. While the chinese improved their life conditions tremendously with little freedom of expression but with more economical freedom.

Im not dissing freedom of expression, just saying it’s quite naive to think that being able to bitch about politicians and the bureaucrats while not being able to control your own life and property will be useful somehow. Actually a state would love the situation where people praise it for “allowing” freedom of expression, and then the state can abuse economical freedom alleging that a bunch of people expressed it was desirable to take from Paul to give to Peter.

118

You can act like I am ignorant of the plight of the poor all you want. The fact of the matter is I lived it. I am still living it. I may not have been as disadvantaged as you. But I still lived it.

I would know what it is like to be homeless and searching for your next scrap of food were it not for my own motivation, and largely my social circles.

I know what waiting in line at food banks is, I have done it. I know what getting laughed at cuz you wear run down clothes from the thrift store feels like. I know what it feels like to be snickered at cuz you get free lunch. I know what it is like to hear your parents constantly screaming at each other because, even tho your father works 10-12 hrs/day, 6 days a week, you just can’t pay the bills. I have seen social mobility through hard work, it was my life.

It wasn’t easy. It wasn’t fun. And it surprises me that I am not a drug addict because of it..

Again, show me how I am ignorant of the situation of the poor. Show me where I spoke of something I do not know, and have not experienced. Show me where I tried to beat something over your head. Or just keep calling me an idiot and hoping I will see your point of view.. it might work.

T/F; the poor themselves are not entirely to blame for their situation

119

Freedom of expression itself couldn’t stop the FED and the State to stimulate the destruction of american economy. While the chinese improved their life conditions tremendously with little freedom of expression but with more economical freedom.

I dont think you understood my post correctly. I said freedom of expression in all facets of life, even economically (some would argue especially economically). I wasnt saying freedom of speech or assembly, I was saying all types of expression.

Actually a state would love the situation where people praise it for “allowing” freedom of expression, and then the state can abuse economical freedom alleging that a bunch of people expressed it was desirable to take from Paul to give to Peter.

No, I believe that was one of the brilliant (not good, just smart) ways the founders allowed for continued statist hegemony. By allowing free expression (as limited as it was, still way more than almost any previous system) it allowed people to say “this is the greatest country ever on the face of the earth.” And from there, the state was able to cement its place as the supposed protector of free expression (and the people somehow forget that it is NOT the state, but THEM that protects these things).

120

You can act like I am ignorant of the plight of the poor all you want. The fact of the matter is I lived it. I am still living it. I may not have been as disadvantaged as you. But I still lived it.

Please lets continue this line of discussion in the Member Issues forum. Thanks.