Jevon's Paradox?

[gotlucky]

@Jackson LaRose

But two esoteric articles on oil wells fefilling is?

Considering you were vague and the articles deal with actual places, yes. Plus, the articles throw a wrench in the idea that oil is a fixed resource.

@Jackson LaRose

Yeah, which is the relevant issue, at least as far as I am concerned.

I think I see the problem here. You want to live in a perfect world. That’s fine, but it has nothing to do with the real world.

@Jackson LaRose

And? I don’t see how this is a point. Is it cleaner than it was in 1491?

Firstly, capitalism is not what was originally the system here. For hundreds of years, it was mercantlism and some socialism. After capitalism, people improved the environment. So, this would contradict your belief that capitalism must lead to a worse environment. Secondly, if you would prefer we go back to 1491, I shall direct you to this thread here.

@Jackson LaRose

And? If anything, you are proving my point. Did you have to do that before the Puritans got here? Where are all the salmon? When’s the last time you ate anything out of the river? When was the last time it ran in it’s actual river bed (it has been completely engineered from Cambridge downstream)?

No, it does not prove your point. As I said above, capitalism is not the cause of destruction everywhere. It is typically other forms of economies that have destruction. In addition, capitalism is able to reverse problems when they occur if people care. If they don’t, well, so what? We should all be forced to listen to you?

Furthermore, you just don’t even know what you are talking about:

There are fish in the Charles River in the Boston area, and you can eat some of them. Follow the link and choose the part of the Charles River that is in the Boston area, as that is what we have been discussing.

@Jackson LaRose

LOL, what’s next, telling me that the market was responsible for the clean up? The Charles is fucked, hate to break it to you. The same goes for most rivers in New England/Northeast. The Hudson, the Housatonic, the Connecticut, the Thames, the Providence (hell, it was underground till a few years ago!), the Charles, the Merrimack, etc.

It’s been getting rated B and B+ from the EPA. It used to be a D. The idea is to keep improving it.

@Jackson LaRose

Just because your definition of “not trashed” is “won’t send you to the hospital”, doesn’t mean that the ecology of the region hasn’t been severly impacted and the carrying capacity severly reduced.

It’s not my problem that you didn’t define your idea of a “trashed” environment. Civilization itself severly impacts the environment. I’m still not gonna burn my home down just to satisfy you and Freedom4Me.

@Jackson LaRose

Yeah? Here’s a good disposal solution!

So what? There will be improvements in disposal. Disposal need not cause problems for people. If it has, then those affected have every right to sue. That is, if the government permits it. But then we are no longer talking about capitalism, and we are back to the government screwing things up.

@Jackson LaRose

Where?

Open your eyes and look.

@Jackson LaRose

Are you saying that existence is impossible without capitalism?

No. I’ll be more specific. It’s capitalism or extinction, unless you want to just run around aggressing against everyone who doesn’t do things the way you would like.

Of course, that’s the option you want. I shouldn’t have left it out.