My mom is married to the Democrats and talking to her is like talking to a wall. It’s not even that she has a set state of thinking, its just that she’s blissfully ignorance on any topic. If I go deeper than what she hears on TV, she softens up and lets me do the talking because she realizes she doesn’t know anything past “Obama is snowed in at the White House!”
My dad, on the other hand, is a registered Independent but nearly always votes Republican. At least, he has been ever since Perot lost. I told him that the government taxes about half of his income away (which wasn’t unrealistic. Maybe he didn’t know I meant annually. Hell, my Personal Finance teacher said his taxes are at like 50%) and he was like “What? No they don’t!” I also told him one time that taxes are theft (in a somewhat subtle way) and he got all cynical toward me and said “Yeah alright, Mr. No Government.”
My family still thinks I’m one of those Libertarian Party fools, although I did tell them to vote for Joe Kennedy in Massachusetts’ special senator election. If I can’t/won’t vote and they won’t listen to my suggestions of not voting, then they might as well vote for someone worthwhile.
When people pull out the “I’m older than you” argument, you know they are on weak ground; do you see what I mean? It shows a total lack of intellectual strength to resort to something like that.
If he actually knew what he was talking about, then he would be able to explain how he was right and you are wrong. He can’t.
The thing you now have to think about is what you are trying to accomplish. Is it worth it trying to help him see the light. If so, what would be a proper approach. Is it even possible to help him? Is it an effective use of your time?
Been there, done that mon ami. My dad’s on the opposite end of the spectrum (has never voted for anyone but Democrats and never misses an election) but he’s just as confident that I know nothing of “real-world” economics because I’ve never had a serious career, operated a business, etc etc.
I find it helps to establish common ground and build from there. When he complains about spending, egg him on and eventually point out that government spending soared consistently under the previous Welfare/Warfare administration.
You may never get him to agree and consider Austrianism. Some people just outright refuse to change because their political ideology has always been a major part of their identity. If this is the case, focus on teaching younger siblings if you have any.
Well. I am very sorry things have gone this way with your father. I find that with my parents, my views have gotten me into some serious arguments that devolved into other forms of fighting that were much more personal. The strange thing is, that later on, my stepfather has actually grown to accept my views more and more.
I think that not all people are capable of talking about politics. It might be because they appreciate their world view to much to here dissent. It might be because they have had people use political discussion as a method of psychological domination on them in the past. They might be someone who uses those sorts of ways of dominating others, and will only argue with people who are weak in the area of politics. If you want to discuss politics and economics with your father, then it might be a good idea to figure out whether or not he is one of these people.
A couple of ways to find about this are to ask him directly, check out what he reads, and see what kind of forums he goes on. I wouldn’t ask him directly since he has seemed to shut down on you. What exactly he reads should help you determine how much he is actually invested in politics, and then again, how interested he is. If he goes on certain kinds of forums, it might indicate that he enjoys flame wars and trolling (example, Perspectives.com, I used to go here when I was 13, terrible site). If he does, then it might be that he either doesn’t want to get into that kind of argument with you, or he doesn’t feel capable.
The thing with Libertarianism is that it upsets people. It is a radical set of beliefs that takes people out of their comfort zones as far as “what world view should I hold?” goes. Is your father connected to people who are political? Do his friends complain about certain political things a lot? Are any of them cops, feds, soldiers. politicians, social workers? Accepting a new world view might damage these relationships. Or he may perceive that it will.
Another thing that is important is that certain authors will be much more accessible to people than others. I think for a conservative, I would suggest Hoppe.
EDIT: What I am saying in short is that you may be threatening his identity/emotional-security by confronting his world view. I am 18 and that sort of thing is scary, and I speculate (rampantly) that it gets harder when one is older. So please try to be sensitive enough to know whether or not he can handle that sort of thing. It isn’t your fault that he blew up on you, I am just saying don’t stick your arm into a tiger’s cage. His comments were clearly out of emotion not out of intellectual objection.
Treat him like the state and the institute like an alternative means. Surpass him non-violently until he is just another voice in the static in the world of politics. Keep reading thought provoking literature and strive to be a better man.
My mother calls herself a “conservative” too. She likes some libertarian ideas but thinks humanity is too selfish for anarchy to work. She keeps making emotional arguments, such as “Who will take care of the poor?” etc.
He’s your Dad. Get over it, love him, and expect that he will love you in return.
Since you know that this is one of his “buttons”, don’t push it. See where you can affirm him and his beliefs, and you will soon find him doing the same in return.
If you see your parents are not very open to proselytisation drop the subject. It’s not worth falling out over, and it may be disrespectful to repeatedly antagonise them.
How old is your father? If he’s anything between 40 and 65 the best thing you can do is leave him alone. He’s beyond redemption like all Baby Boomers. I am not adding details because I could become somewhat less than diplomatic.
I feel in these situations that if I can offer peace to the other person, ie. somebody like your father (or my sister or my mother who both of them after I don’t know how many years can tolerate me talking about some of this stuff but I still try to avoid unloading a lot on them in my excitement, cause even though for me it’s very joyful, for them it’s scary and they wonder if I’m actually the bad guy since I want to destroy what they’ve become so used to, but anyways…), if I can share peace with them, then I feel I’ve got my foot in the door with the NAP. They don’t know what the NAP is, but if they see I’m sharing peace with them it helps discourage any threatened feeling they may have about me. Keep in mind, at least this is how I see it, I’m destroying what they know. That can be very threatening. They feel they are in the right, and so I might be the apocalypse in their eyes for all I know. It is destruction that I am sharing on a certain level, but obviously I’m not being destructive and I would never initiate coercion, it’s actually the opposite that I really would like to see implemented more often. I try to put peace into action in my life and see what happens.
I know there’s so much more to this, but I’ll leave this at that. have a good day[:)]
I couldn’t even sit through all that. It sounded like it was supposed to be his variation on that old Aristocrats anti-joke, and the fact that people actually laughed at it disgusts me.
So yes, if the OP wants to antagonize his dad - and to discredit his own argument - even further, then that is the perfect thing to send him. Even doing so anonymously would accomplish nothing.
On topic: I think what some of the earlier posters said about finding common ground was very insightful. While “converting” OP’s father to libertarianism might end up an unrealistic objective, illustrating that he unknowingly agrees with “our side” on surprisingly many points should at least convince him that his son isn’t a quack after all.
It looks like you’ve made a mess of the situation to start off with, but it doesn’t mean you can’t sort it out. The problem is, you’re being way too confrontational, even for someone like your dad. When (as a younger person) you talk to older people it’s very easy for them to dismiss you as being “idealistic”, which is, as we all know, an absurd accusation, but they seem to think it defeats anything you say since you’re young. So you have to manoeuvre around the situation cleverly. Like people said, you’ve got to show your father the similarities between your ideas and his.
He wants the government out of your pocketbook right? He wants the government to get rid of most of all the harmful regulation? He wants a return to traditional values of self-sufficiency and responsibility for onesself right?
If you are able to read Spanish, why do you opt to read “Money, Bank Credit, and Economic Cycles” rather than “Dinero, Crédito Bancario y Ciclos Económicos”?
On top of that, you are basically telling your dad that he is just a dumb old fart and you will teach him the ways of the world. How is he supposed to feel about his children teaching him lessons?
If he is going to change his mind, it is because he has taken his own journey to the truth. Your task is only to help him on his journey, not to push him down it.
My entire family’s very liberal, they don’t agree with much of anything I say. I say just get used to it. People are rarely convinced by words, but more by life experience. If he experiences something that makes him doubt his beliefs, he may turn to you for answers. Or not. But really, what did you expect?