Legality of private currency in US

No; counterfeit currency is paper notes printed in excess of specie. You can have that with private currency, but governments do it far better, especially when they have a monopoly on the production of currency. Jefferson’s concerns would have been completely obviated if the government had made fractional reserve banking illegal. Currency was, for a long time, nothing more than warehouse reciepts for a weight of precious metals; as such, the printing of excess notes was known to be fraudulent.

Unfortunately, the state enabled fractional reserve banking for its own ends, then began arbitrarily to set the value of notes, then finally detatched currency from specie altogether. The problem was not private currency. The problem was that the state, as always, failed to protect the property rights of those who held currency; in fact, they themselves became the biggest violators of those rights.

If banks acted solely as holders of specie, issuing notes exclusively as reciepts for physical money; and if the issuance of excess notes were recognized and prosecuted as fraud against prior holders of a bank’s currency; and if, most importantly, there were free entry into the market for money production (and therefore the abilty of the market to choose the best, most reliable issuers of money by enabling the free choice of consumers), there would be no problem with money.

The boom-and-bust cycle would end, and the state would be deprived of its cleverest tool of wealth confiscation. And that is exactly why we have no such system; why the state has arrogated to itself a monopoly on the production of money, and the exclusive power to determine its value. Certainly not because it is in the best interests of regular people like you and me. It is absurd to believe that those in the government, by controlling a monetary monopoly through its exclusive ability to use legalized violence, could possibly benefit anyone but themselves, and those directly connected with the central bank.

http://www.opencurrency.com/

These folk basically have got together with hundreds of various private businesses and groups that sell silver coins (the Mises coin included), and have it set up so that these businesses will take these silver coins in payment for goods. Check it out.

But what is to stop a bank from changing the weights and measures of their currency? There would have to be a law saying that every note purchased must equal so many dollars, or banks could do pretty much what they want… There is a huge problem with banking in general. Any way you look at it, all the wealth would end up being concentrated through compound interest. Big banks would lend to smaller banks till they confiscated all of the gold. There is no honest banking unless banking is interest-free.

“The greatest power is not nuclear power, it is compound interest.” - Albert Einstein

It is easy to shave gold and silver coins..

Would a monopoly be more likely or less likely to “shave coins”?

Also, interest being bad thing was refuted long ago and more succinctly a few weeks ago here. By the way, can I borrow $2,000 from you? I’ll sign a legally binding contract to pay it back in full in 5 years. What say you?[:D]

A monopoly shave coins? I don’t think it makes a bit of difference. Anybody could shave coins, it has been done repeatedly throughout history. I’m not talking about usury from an ethical stand view, i’m talking about it from a mathematical point.. As long as there is interest on money, it will always end up in the hands of a few.. I’m for a hard currency protected by the state. I don’t think private floating currencies will work if there is no law on the weights and measures.. That is why they put that into the constitution, this was refuted long ago.

The fact that they would very quickly find themselves without customers, who would leave in droves and go to more reliable banks. And they would also find themselves owing restitution to those customers whom they had defrauded, provided there is a legal system that recognizes counterfieture as fraud. Which ours currently does not, since ALL new currency not backed by an increase in specie is counterfiet.

No; “dollars” is a completely arbitrary standard. A grain, gram, ounce, pound, etc. of metal is immutable.

Only if people are foolish enough to borrow from banks that charge compound interest.

Just how do you think that would occur? With fractional reserve banking made illegal, there would be NO borrowing between banks, because a bank without a 100% reserve would not exist.

Banking is the storage of money and the issuance of currency against money held in trust. You’re confusing it with lending. And without interest, there would be NO lending. Period.

“The observable economic facts belong to [the past] and even such laws as we can derive from them are not applicable to other phases. Since the real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development, economic science in its present state can throw little light on the socialist society of the future.” - Albert Einstein

See, I can quote ridiculous things from a guy who was an absolute ignoramus about economics, too.

That’s rather like being for a chicken farm protected by a pack of wolves.

Of course they won’t. But “a law on the weights and measures” is not even close to the same thing as “a law prohibiting free exchange and competition in money and establishing a state-controlled monopoly on the same”.

Putting something into the constitution doesn’t refute a damn thing. The constitution was an instrument of political power, not a treatise on ethical or economic truth.

I wouldn’t accept shaved gold coins.. I’d just weigh them first if I was suspicious. Besides, shaving gold coins couldn’t possibly result in the same horrendous devaluation of currency perpetrated by central banks.

If shaving (or sweating, or other ways of ripping people off) of gold or silver coins became a serious problem, then people would either weigh the coins or require some kind of token for the gold (actually warehoused in another location). These tokens could be electronic, or paper, or some kind of less valuable metal. Most likely, a person may use gold coins, silver coins, other metalic coins, paper notes (redeemable at the bank of issue, or with anyone else who trusts the issuing bank enough) and electronic transactions.

The concept of ‘shaving’ metal coins is simply a non-issue in whether a gold standard is viable (which should/could/would be decided by a free market anyway). Governments are worse than the prospect of a few thieves scraping a bit of gold from a coin: there are many ways to make sure you’re getting the right amount of payment in a free market, however there’s little way of stopping a government from robbing you bling.

Why?

Because those who loan out money will always end up with more money then was lent out.. It is inevitable.. That is why there are only a select handful of banks that own a majority of of our country… Interest/(principle+interest)

For one thing, there isn’t enough gold to go around for everyone. That is why it is so rare and valuable.. Who dominates the gold market anyways?? Whoever does will be in charge of the money supply.

Macfall… Do you not agree that inflation is theft? The primary goal of our government is to protect private property, which is money. The government can only protect us from inflationary theft by setting weights and measures.. You claim that people would stop going to a bank that inflates it’s currency, but how would you protect those who were harmed in the process? You failed to realize, that just because you increase a specie doesn’t mean that you wont devalue a currency… What if the specie is some type of commodity which is mass produced? The specie and money will lose it’s value. Inflation is inflation, which devalues a currency and is a form of theft.

Maybe you should read some of John Locke’s or Thomas Paine’s work before you criticize the constitution and dismiss all forms of government and their duties. I agree, we are not in the correct state of affairs, but the principles are strong.

You obviously don’t know a thing about socialism or communism. It comes about naturally when countries become overpopulated. Maybe you should do a lil bit of research before you try to trump albert einstein. Did you just find that quote or what?

During the free-banking era, there were 8,000 different currencies floating around. You say that the government can protect against fraud, but how will a store owner know which currency is good and who gave it to him? A store owner will only accept a currency that is guaranteed to be real.

Privately issued currencies compete with one another. Like all products which are in open competition with one another, quality tends to increase and price tends to decrease. Austrian theory of money shows this to be the case and the historical record bears out this fact.

I always end up with more money at the start of the month, and there are many others like me. Does that mean it is inevitable that we will end up with all the money in the world?

Only in a magical fairy world. In the real world, the primary goal of a government is the same as the primary goal of any self-interested organization: to maximize its material wealth and power.

You have reversed cause and effect. Overpopulation is the effect. Socialism is the cause.

Clayton -

Surely, there are more than 6 billion atoms of gold on the planet!!

Clayton -

Clayton.. what point were you trying to disprove exactly?

John… How much money do you make a month?? When was the last time you lent 300,000 dollars for a home?

There is only enough gold to fill 2 Olympic size pools. The jewelry that you buy is not solid gold, and look how expensive it is. It is not economically feasible, just observe Austrians theory on the origin of money.

Damn Paul Grignon!

Seriously, this is true of every profitable business and, as another poster mentioned, every household which maintains a positive cash flow. [8-)]

Clayton -