Libertarian Socialism

[WmBGreene]

@Brainpolice

If our premise is that noone can own that which pre-existed labor, then noone can own anything, because everything initially pre-existed labor (and pre-existed the existance of human beings altogether, for that matter). Therefore, geoism is simply inconsistant in that it still allows ownership over everything else, even though ownership over everything else would defy their own premise about that which pre-existed labor.

I am stating based on simple logic that you can’t have exclusive use of land in an inelastic scarcity market without an obligation to those being excluded if you intend to uphold the fundamental tenet of libertarianism - the absolute right of self-ownership.

So you can own that which pre-exists human labor but only with an obligation to not economically disadvantage those you excluded. The appearance of economic rent determines whether or not the condition has been met.

[WmBGreene]

@tgibson11

This is no different than saying: I require food to exist. If all the existing food is owned by others, then that is violating my right of self-ownership. Or a more realistic example - I require a certain drug to cure a life-threatening disease? Again, we come back to the question of why land is different than everything else?

Food is a “good” provided by labor. A certain drug is the product of someone’s labor. To require it be given to sustain someone’s life would be creating a positive liberty framework. “Land” is not a “good” produced by human labor that is required to continue existing. To exist is to occupy a specific location in time space - they can not be separated.

@tgibson11

Land (technically, space) is necessary to live

No. Land is not a “necessity” to live like sustenance. To be a live as a human IS TO occupy land somewhere. They are not the same and can not be separated.

@tgibson11

Land is not the result of labor (you would presumably reject my food/medicine argument on this basis - what about water?)

Yes. See above.

In economic parlance the term “land” is used to describe everything in the material universe that pre-exists human labor. So water is a free good that we all have an individual equal access opportunity right to access/use so long as in our use we do not infringe on the equal access opportunity right of any other individual. Air is similar.

Water and air are a little bit of a different argument because you can exist for a short period of time without them so they can be separated. Not occupying a location while existing is not physically possible.