lol… oh yeah I forget he said that too… Redford, how do you know I’m not a genius? Maybe I’m really a dog typing on the internet - beat that!
Now that I figured out this new toy of having pictures I’m goin’ hog wild with 'em!
All in good fun![:D]
"There is a lot of interest in it. But LRC, Mises org etc are not the avenues to discuss it. "
Says who, you? Garbage.
Furthermore, they are not even aware of it, or if they are [despite the complete lack of evidence in any of their writings] they are all intellectual cowards, or at the very least lacking in any intellectual curiosity about truth. Its apparently far safer for them and others to sit around and pontificate/dream about changing the world via economic education. LRC and LVM are nothing more than a bunch of warmed over conservative think tanks these days, as far as I can see.
No. Says the tagline at the top of the site. That’s why the donors fund them. There are numerous “truth” organizations that receive funding for that purpose. You wouldn’t expect me to go to a 911 site and demand they promote and discuss the subjective theory of value or anarchy would you?
Perhaps, but I think the results speak for themselves. They get onto TV, they are somewhat respected in scholarly circles, and it’s hard to argue with Ron Paul’s political success the last couple years. Meanwhile, the 9/11 movement hasn’t done anything in the last 2 years. I don’t understand where the bitching about Austro-libertarians is going to make up for the fact that Truthers are ineffective. It’s certainly not Lew Rockwell’s fault that he won’t spend his political capital and credibility on your causes.
This was bound to happen, because the Truthers are some of the kookiest folks around and have socialization issues. If people learned how to build credibility and communicate, to fund raise and organize, to publish and so forth, then maybe the truth movement would be further ahead.
But like on the Ron Paul forums during his campaign, the hardest truthers marginalized themselves because they confused a liberty movement that includes numerous groups and agendas, with a platform that should advance their view above all others. Sure the truthers supplied some energy, but they did not supply any organization or resources.
What LvMI and LRC provide to the liberty movement ARE resources and organization. Being a single fringe issue group would make that impossible. Not to mention as time goes on, I think the truth conspiracies are mostly garbage. The time for action has already been missed. 15 years later, no one will care for the truth about 9/11, any more than people care about the truth about the Gulf of Tonkin. The fight against tyranny however will continue on other issues and other fronts. I suspect LvMI and LRC will be knee deep in those battles.
Socialization issues. I like that. A bit Sovietic-sounding, though.
Which assumes perfect knowledge.
I won’t link it, but here is an example. I have a friend, a somewhat successful business person. He posts on an online forum. There is some political and economic chat, the people on the forum are for the most part, successful business people, so they understand some economics, some politics etc.
So a discussion comes up about the TSA in airports. He gets in the thread, and by his second post, is pasting in graphics of Obama with devil eyes, and a burning Israeli flag over the White House.
Now these people are intelligent and open minded. But they can see an ideological fanatic a mile away and won’t waste time on that.
He writes to me, “Why don’t they care? I’m so sick of sheeple”
But the problem is, he never took any time to get to know his audience, to give them a point of reference, etc. Like the OP in this thread, he went straight to his message, and crammed it as forcefully and loudly as possible in their faces. So close, that they can’t even see what they are being presented with (like a wall of text, or over the top graphics).
People who have some experience socializing with others, publicly speaking, performing leadership roles, know how to communicate, make friends, influence people. People who have trouble socializing, end up marginalized and frustrated.
The biggest thing we can do for liberty, is learn how to communicate it effectively. Not expose the government, expose conspiracies, refute mathematical models. It’s communicate the moral case for liberty, the insight of austrian econ and truthfulness of praxeology.
Unfortunately the truth movement follows the model of Alex Jones, which I am now convinced is the model of Lyndon Larouche. Get loud, be loud, everyone is against you, everyone is against (your) truth, it’s all a conspiracy, we’re all going to die soon because the world is coming to an end. There is no hope, or positivity or upside, just fear and anxiety.
This. Methodological individualism ftw.
“Meanwhile, the 9/11 movement hasn’t done anything in the last 2 years. I don’t understand where the bitching about Austro-libertarians is going to make up for the fact that Truthers are ineffective. It’s certainly not Lew Rockwell’s fault that he won’t spend his political capital and credibility on your causes…”
99% of the 911 “Truther” movement is in complete denial of TV video fakery on 9/11 , precisely because it is a political movement [“Loose Change” etc.] , and as such does not want to risk appearing too “kooky”.
In other words , in order to achieve supposedly achievable political goals, the official “9/11 Truth movement” is prepared to sacrifice/submerge a search for truth and embrace a denial of truth instead.
It will fail in its objectives precisely because it is a political movement , which _always_necessitates the sacrifice of truth for imagined political gain. Regardless, all political movements [i.e organized and consisting of more than one person] must and will fail.[i.e. because of applied human action theory]
And in this [political] respect, both LRC and LVI are no different from the “truther” movement and will fail just as dismally, precisely because they also, just like those dreaded “truthers” they do not wish to associate with, seek political objectives and are evidently, on what you say, fully prepared to ignore a search for truth in order to win enough votes.
Frankly, you[ meaning LRC, LVI,Ron Paul and the “Loose Change” crowd] all deserve each other - you are all so similar .
Sad but predictable.
“…The time for action has already been missed. 15 years later, no one will care for the truth about 9/11,” .
Yes, time. It’s much later than you think- the government controls the media to the extent that it has the power to create /fabricate incidents with computer generated imagery of planes hitting buildings in order to start a war- meanwhile, Rozeff, Hoppe, Rockwell, Shaffer et al [“anarcho- capitalists” “panarchists” or whatever they call themselves these days], sit around and pontificate about educating the same dim bulbs who believe [like themselves?] that planes can actually fly through 500,000 ton steel and concrete buildings in one piece, without slowing down, and without parts falling off, [as the various videos purport to show] about the necessity of said dimbulbs understanding “Austrian economic principles” in order to make the world a better place [ or at least buying all the books!]
Amusing, if nothing else!
If you understood LvMI and LRC, you would not call them conservative. Nor political. These are apolitical organizations.
You’re just being petulant because you can’t communicate and have failed to build a consensus around your ideas. If you “had it going on” you wouldn’t be here complaining about the lack of action from others. You would be working with people that are effective, have capital and like your ideas.
Ultimately, the no-planer, truther stuff has flopped because it doesn’t pass the market test. Rather than change your tactics and approach, you’ve decided to burn what bridges might be left.
But again, this only speaks to your inability to educate and communicate. You’re upset that people think differently than you, but you can’t win them over, and you are frustrated that they choose to ignore you and your topics.
The books are free. Everything on this site is not only free, it is Creative Commons, which means you could reprint and resell it for your own profit. This is how much further ahead of everyone else LvMI is. They sell books by giving them away for free. You can’t even find anyone to take your ideas for free, let alone to pay for them.
I suggest you re-brand your message. The first step is to stop blaming others, and start examining your own failures.
You’re not agreeing with Michael Rozeff, you’re agreeing with me. My point in my article which I linked to in the originating post in this thread is that government is the largest corporeal conspiracy that could possibly exist. Rozeff’s article was arguing against any such analysis. Perhaps you got the statements of who said what confused.
At any rate, read the article I linked to, since I quite clearly make the point which you bring up.
Everything I wrote on was pertinent to the point I was making. I guess the albatross for truth-tellers is that so much documentation on the genocidally criminal nature of government exists that even detailing a small sampling of it quickly expends a large amount of space.
Seven paragraphs is not a long post. And if you think it is, there’s something wrong with you.
Ah, yes, because just making bare assertions is so helpful to the advancement of knowledge. This Twitter mindset is death to sapience.
Yes, LewRockwell.com is an “avenue” to discuss it. Michael Rozeff discussed it, although his statement were provably false. The U.S. government disinformation agent Prof. Morgan Reynolds (chief economist for the United States Department of Labor from 2001-2002, under President George Bush, Jr.) has been published a number of times by LewRockwell.com, even though he is almost universally regarded within the Truth movement as an obvious U.S. government agent provocateur due to his hateful attacks upon actual researchers into the U.S. government-staged 9/11 attacks (i.e., regarding the empirical fact that thermite was used to bring down the towers) and his clownish promotion of the anti-physical “space beam” claims (an obvious disinformation campaign by the U.S. government in order to attempt to discredit the Truth community, which despite the major media’s government-directed wont to focus on such black propaganda, never held current within the Truth movement).
As well, such analysis is particularly right up the alley of Mises.org, since this website is especially focused on political and economic theory, which includes analysis on the theoretical basis on the praxis of government, i.e., how it overcomes attempts to constrain it; how it obtains its power; how it takes over society. See in particular the analysis of Prof. Murray N. Rothbard that I mention in the article I linked to in the originating post of this thread.
“The U.S. government disinformation agent Prof. Morgan Reynolds (chief economist for the United States Department of Labor from 2001-2002, under President George Bush, Jr.) has been published a number of times by LewRockwell.com, even though he is almost universally regarded within the Truth movement as an obvious U.S. government agent provocateur due to his hateful attacks upon actual researchers into the U.S. government-staged 9/11 attacks (i.e., regarding the empirical fact that thermite was used to bring down the towers) and his clownish promotion of the anti-physical “space beam” claims (an obvious disinformation campaign by the U.S. government in order to attempt to discredit the Truth community, which despite the major media’s government-directed wont to focus on such black propaganda, never held current within the Truth movement).”
I am glad you brought up Morgan Reynolds.
The 911 “Truth” movement is BS for 3 reasons.
1] it is a political movement. This automatically leads to the denial of the facts[truth] below.
2] it is in denial of truth -no planes hit any towers, the Pentagon, or crashed into the ground in PA. [ just as Mr Reynolds himself says.]
3] it is in denial of truth - a thorough examination of the evidence [ collapse and post collapse] reveals that it was impossible for conventional explosives such as thermite to have caused the 10 second collapse of the twin towers in the manner depicted on film.
On this matter [demolition] Reynolds says he does not know for sure, but readily concedes that yes, thermite does NOT explain the types of damage found and he is therefor willing to consider that other, perhaps unknown methods/technologies were used.
By saying he does not know for sure what brought down the towers and that he is willing to consider “space beams” or whatever, he is at least being intellectually honest.
The 911 “Truth” movement is not, and can never be, because it is a political movement. [point [1]].
If you believe that planes hit the towers etc. and that thermite adequately explains the types of damage found at the WTC, you’ve got your head conveniently in the sand - just like the majority of the 911 “Truth” movement. The fact that you are somehow involved with a political organization [Loose Change?] to the point where you actually believe their dishonest political claptrap speaks volumes.
“You’re upset that people think differently than you, but you can’t win them over, and you are frustrated that they choose to ignore you and your topics.”
Not true.
I don’t care that most here remain in denial/ignorance of the fact that no planes hit the towers- I have no political agenda to make the world a better place through austrian economics or the exposure of the truth that no planes did any of the things they are supposed to have done on 911 etc. Let slaves be slaves-including you. After all, in the end only you can free yourself; not me, not Ron Paul, not anyone else- and you can still be free despite the perceived lack of freedom of everyone else, and you do not have to free anyone else, either!
I am only interested in a search for truth for its own sake - nothing more.
As such, I am merely pointing out that Rockwell, Hoppe, Rozeff and Shaffer [i.e. the most consistently radical LRC writers] are entirely mute on the issue- and it is funny [both funny"ha ha" and funny “peculiar”].
You imply that they know [no planes hit towers, Pentagon, or were buried in the ground at Shanksville] and choose not to talk about it for political reasons -as if you have some sort of inside knowledge about these 4 people and their knowledge. [As if you really know - pure fantasy on your part , I’m guessing- I just love those who delude themselves into believing that they really know what others are thinking and why they act , and furthermore that they all support your own political agenda as you see it.]
I say, if that is true [i.e that they know there were no planes], then that is deceitful, and that you are just as deceitful for endorsing such tactics in the name of money [donors] and politics. Deceitful , typical, and sadly inevitable as explained by human action theory.
Furthermore, that such maneuvering/shading/ covering of truth in the name of money and politics is no different from that of the "911 Truth movement [i.e “Loose Change”, Alex Jones etc.] or from any mainstream political movement for that matter.
Never mind- I am fully confidant that such dishonesty for political gain will destroy LVM and LRC [and “Loose Change”] - or to put it another way, the more politically “successful” these organizations become, the less truth will be told by any of them.
I, on the other hand, am not sure that they even know this [no planes hit towers, Pentagon, or buried in the ground at Shanksville] , and have merely observed that they appear to lack any intellectual curiosity about the matter - more than a little strange for such “radical thinkers”, if you ask me.
It is fascinating to watch people who claim to understand basic human action theory [ the premises of which ultimately lead to anarchy, and the useslessness of all political activity -as has been mentioned on other threads], consistently attempt to deny the truth of that theory and its inevitable conclusions and then “go political”, and in that process actively work to suppress truth in order to achieve some imagined gain for the political group in question - i.e the sacrifice/suppression of truth [or at the very least , of an honest search for it], for the perceived " greater good" of the group itself, and by implication of course, in the end, for “society as a whole”.
But then again Mises was a socialist [in the sense that he aimed to demonstrate and promote what he thought was best for society as a whole- “free markets” for “the greater good” eh?],
Wow, I just said it was your choice. I defended your free will, but then you turn around and say I’m wrong. See what I get for being nice. Silly me.
If you think the whole world must stop what it’s doing just to read your post and you call everybody wrong because they didn’t then you have your head up your… opps blanked out.
Now that is disingenuous. You tag your posts, you have a linked signature, you started a blog, you are debating me, you complained about LvMI and LRC, Rockwell and others, your username is your blog address. You obviously care, or you wouldn’t have written and repeated yourself again. You’re just lousy at marketing and communication.
I will repeat now, no one wants to hear your message because (1) it sucks, (2) it’s uninteresting.
There is no value in LvMI or LRC picking up that message if they wanted to gain political capital (as you claim they are wont to do by ignoring it). If there was political gain or capital in promoting your truth, then someone might advance it.
No, the problem is that people with half-baked ideas, fanaticism and poor socialization have tainted 9/11 as a movement, and instead of overcoming that, they show up here, trying to parasite capital and credibility before the flame is completely snuffed out.
The problem isn’t that people with something to lose aren’t carrying your water. It’s that you can’t provide a compelling reason why carrying your water is in their best interest.
9/11, truth and no-planers fail the market test, and until people in the movement change their way of doing business, they will continue to fail and be less and less relevant (like that is possible) each day.
The failures lie with people in the movement (you), not people outside of it (LRC bloggers). It’s a copout to blame someone else for not doing your job for you.
And that’s LS delivering a sermon.
(And yes please, I’ll use the Krugman signature, if you don’t mind)