minimum wage is good and necessary

[Autolykos]

I consider the NBER study to be flawed. Here’s why:

In addition to the simplicity of our empirical methodology, several other features of the New Jersey experience and our data set are also significant. First, the rise in the minimum wage occurred during a recession. The increase had been legislated two years earlier when the state economy was relatively healthy and the Democratic party controlled the state legislature. By the time of the actual increase, the unemployment rate in New Jersey had risen substantially and the Republican party controlled the legislature.

The study authors go on to state, “It is unlikely that the effects of the higher minimum wage were obscured by a rising economy.” Yet they provide no explanation for this alleged unlikelihood. Clearly not all other things were equal for their study, which is an important caveat to keep in mind for all economic laws.

Oh and later on we find that there were employment gains in New Jersey as well as employment losses in Pennsylvania during the 8-month study period. Again, clearly not all things were equal. I think I can stop here.

[Wheylous]

You’re not replying to our questions. If raiding the minimum wage doesn’t create unemployment, why not raise it to $10,000?

As to foreign cheap labor, take it up with the right-wing extremist Paul Krugman:

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_dismal_science/1997/03/in_praise_of_cheap_labor.html

[katokato]

There’s plenty of good empirical evidence that prove minimum wage laws d ogreater good than bad - Like limited work weeks, workplace safety regulations, child labor laws, environmental protections, guaranteed union rights and so on, minimum wage statutes limit the ability of corporate entities to abuse and oppress their employees, communities and environments.

How do you know that it isnt the mass industrialization and technological improvements that make it so children no longer have to work (and it is also good that some children work at an early age for expertise), and that work weeks are shorterned.

Moar to come..

If you want to see what the workplace can be like absent such guarantees, regulations and protections, just look at places like burma today and china a decade or two ago. factories as virtual prisons.

If then, we were to abolish all factories in china and burma, what working conditions would arise?

Please answer this question…

It is in the best interest of people in poverty to work where ever they can. Working in a factory may be better than begging or prostitution, it enables them to become closer to independence.

Factory owners must compete to gain labor. That is, the better working conditions, the more people will want to work there. If working conditions become very horrible, then the things being manufactured may be of too low quality or may not even become produced correctly.

[view: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxBzKkWo0mo]

[view: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ttbj6LAu0A]

[MissMapleLeaf]

You can’t raise it too much because there’s not enough money and that’s crazy

[Jargon]

Whadda ya mean? Why is it crazy? If we need more money we can print it?

[katokato]

You can’t raise it too much because there’s not enough money and that’s crazy

Then how do you know that 8 Dollars an hour is not crazy?

If minimum wage is so good, and capitalists are so greedy, then why dont capitalists hire ALL workers for only the minimum wage? If thats the law right?

Apparently capitalists arent taht evil after all if citizens make more than minimum wage.

[Wheylous]

Since Kelvin decided to call her bluff on child labor, here is the economic study to back Kelvin:

http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/whaples.childlabor

[katokato]

Please answer to my post above with the 2 videos.

If you dont, you admit defeat right here and now.

[MissMapleLeaf]

Basically the corporations just exploit them and there should be regulation in place to keep the conditions and pay fair.

[katokato]

There is also the good ole argument of supply and demand.

Minimum wage creates labor surpluses (unemployment).

If the wage line is raised, there will become a gap between supply of labor and demand.

Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage

[katokato]

Basically the corporations just exploit them and there should be regulation in place to keep the conditions and pay fair.

How do the corporations exploit people.

Can you be more descriptive? Im not understanding.

If youre hinting at the capitalist paying the worker wages less than what the worker created then, we are just arguing labor theory of value.

Value of an item is not determined by the amount of labor it takes.

Value is subjective. No matter how many hours you took to make a product, I may value it differently than another person. Its the basic comparison to a bottle of water or a 1 oz crystal diamond.

Lets say it takes 5 hours of labor to make 1 bottle of water, and 200 hours of labor to make 1 oz diamond. If you believe in labor theory of value, both items should be valued equally both in africa and america.

However in reality, here in america, if we were faced with a choice, wed choose the 1 oz diamond, since a bottle of water is so abundant that we would in a heartbeat choose a 1 oz crystal diamond, and as such i value the diamond more than the water even though both items took the same amount of labor to make.

However, in africa, a child that is thirsty will choose the bottle of water. Ddrinkable water is not very abundant in africa and as such, the african child will value the water above the diamond, even though it takes more labor to extract a diamond, than to purify water.

Hence, value comes not from the amount of labor put in it, but from its marginal utility:

Marginal utility

[cab21]

workers get in return what they agree to. workers have the power to say no

now a sweatshop is not free market if it locks people in and won’t let them leave, but people agree to work there if they are free to come and go

economic test wise, there can only be one variable that changes with the rest constant and it does not work that way in real life.

[Friedrich]

1. You cannot isolate one factor in the real world. You can’t, therefore, this study proves nothing.

2. Exploitation? Where it this exploitation? It’s all voluntary interaction.

3. What’s a “fair wage”? $10.00? If that, then why not $9.99? Why not $9.98, etc. ?

4. When you throw around the word “corporation”, I really get the impression that you use it because everyone else uses it. Absolutely, corporations which treat the individuals resposible for theft, fraud, etc. as just part of the company which frees them from justice, but what does that have to do with wages? Why bring up corporations if they cannot be specifically distinguished from any other form of business.

There is no firm argument that the minimum wage is beneficial and there is praxeological evidence to the contrary (it may help some workers, but it hurts those who are unemployed, the producers who have to pay more, and the consuemrs who may have to pay higher prices).

[Friedrich]

Also, if factories if China and Burma are like prisons, why are people voluntarily going and working in them??

It must, by necessity, be their best available option, or they would seek employment elsewhere. These are people who would almost certainly be thrown out of work if a minimum wage were enacted.