Petitions for Secession in 15 States

Miscellaneous Current Events
21

While Secession did not end well at all during the 1800, I’m not sure the same response would be given a second time around. Of course the myth taught in public schools revolves around how the south seceded over slavery, this time around no such excuse exist. I doubt the even the eo-cons would want such a bloody struggle within our own door steps against our own neighbors. Then there is probably the issues of nuclear weapons of which silos are spread out through the country.

I remember about two years ago about some secessionist party that was semi-taken seriously I think in the state of Oregon. Although my own bias is in favor strongly of secession, for some reason I can’t shake of the odd linering feeling that I’ve had for some time tha secession might actually happen again.

22

You guys make some good points.

Well, how rightist is the military generally? Overwhelmingly? They might refuse to attack states trying to secede if that’s where their sympathies lie, then you’d end up with a severe crisis.

23

That was a part of it, but I think the main purpose of the claims of abolition was as an ultimatum to the CSA: the USA told them that if they surrendered by a certain date, they could rejoin the Union and keep their slaves, but if they failed to do so, the Union would consider their slaves freed (though the slaves in the Union would remain as such), and uphold that freedom should the Union be victorious in the war. So the Emancipation Proclamation was really an attempt to end the war at that point, with a Union victory. I’m sure that Lincoln was extremely disappointed that not only did his threat fail in its task of CSA surrender, but that he also had to carry through on the threat, and consider the slaves freed during the war (but who knows if he would have done so post bellum, had he lived).

EDIT:

I don’t think it would come anywhere near military action. The establishment propaganda would completely discredit and destroy any secession movement.

24

I don’t know how secession would end up, I really don’t. Remember, the side affects of secession could make the result worse than would the total retention of the union.

I think that the question of exactly what the military would do, and what would happen to nuclear weapons, are both very good questions. I think in large part it depends on exactly how widely, and to what extent, secession is supported within the seceding states.

@SM

That was certainly a reason, but it’s also hard to deny that slavery was a part of that… Especially because one could argue that the Union abolishing slavery would have been a form of tyranny. This is regardless of what would have happened to the confederacy if it had been left alone. Slavery was a dying institution even when the war took place.

25

Hmm. Well then, I’d compare Lincoln’s “War on Slavery” to the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The U.S. knew that slavery was dying (and would die naturally) just like they knew that Japan would surrender, but they still wanted to use the bombs.

Sorry, but when talking about the bad things that the state has done, it’s impossible to stay on one sub-topic of that.

26

if we cant get 60 percent of a state to vote for anything, how would we expect 60 percent to vote for secession or 50 plus 1?

27

If, let’s say, people of Florida ever come close to supporting secession, a false-flag attack on their beaches by some “rogue army” or “terrorists”, barely prevented by the brave federal forces, will quickly change that.

28

Could you post some of the sources you use? Just wondering.

29

While not nearly on the same level, more than 50 percent plus one voted to regulate marijuana, or decriminalize it, or legalize gay marriage, or all sorts of things throughout history. It just depends upon the popular sentiment at the time.

30

For it to matter, Texas would have to be included in the seceding states and take the lead. If done properly, one could make the case for attacking the seceding states very unpopular.

31

the 50 plus 1 for marajuana was with about 60% voter turnout. not sure if secession would mean there could just be 60% turnout or if 100% would have to vote.

32

Ron Paul Talks Succession and Pledge of Allegiance

33

Try the Emancipation Proclamation. It was issued on September 22nd 1862, to apply only to slaves living in states rebelling against the US government on January 1st 1863.

34

Petitions now in 20 states. Ha.

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/20_states_petition_to_secede_from_us_following_obama_victory_20121112/

35

The South will rise again! I say let it come. It’s about time.

36

I see New York is on that list. Hoorah! Although I shudder at the thought of what kind of state government my fellow New Yorkers might dream up. Could end up being the Union of New York Socialist Counties.

37

Has anybody read any of those comments from the link in the first post? Divide et impera.

38

http://blog.chron.com/txpotomac/2012/11/the-petition-to-let-texas-secede-from-the-u-s-to-be-reviewed-by-the-white-house/

? What kind of statement would the White House give" “Uhhh, no.” ?? Doesn’t this seem kind of asinine?

39

Just watch now as the state-allied intelligentsia goes to work, first with the media, whom will poo-poo and ridicule the effort if they cannot ignore, or perhaps brand it a racist movement, and then from the intellectuals who will declare it unconstitutional and thus not worth thinking about.

If a state actually tried it, they’d be probably sued first by the feds, where it would eventually go to the Supreme Court, who would undoubtedly kick the effort in the teeth and say states cannot secede. As they must.

So, there’s the next 5 - 10 years laid out for you, should a secession effort ever gather steam, which is unlikely in the first place.

That could lead to a much larger long-term secessionist movement ultimately, but the cultural division between fed and state would have to become much stronger, and that could take a generation.

At that point, with such a cultural change, you could envision a USSR-style walk away from the Fed by the state governors, splitting the US into three major parts, the Noreast, the middle reds, and the west-coast.

It’s hard to say if that would be more likely than outright civil war. Probably any president in office would not want to be the guy who let the union dissolve on his watch, presidents are bastards like that, so perhaps war is inevitable.

But it would have to be because of going off the fiscal cliff one too many times and severe depression and inflation and a dozen other pressures, and it won’t be libertarians running the opposition either, so we can’t expect events to redound to our favor really :\

So, again I conclude, onward to a seastead.

40

if the states leave, then attack the federal government like in the civil war, then the usa will respond. the federal government would need to be able to remove it’s property from the seceeded states, and the federal government would retain the land it owns inside states so the secceded states would need to form themselves around the territory that is state owned and not federaly owned. a state does not get to leave and keep federal property.