Petitions for Secession in 15 States

[shackleford]

@Clayton

I think Scalia’s right - what are you going to do, draft up a letter that says “Dear Sirs and Madams. This letter is to notify you that we, the undersigned, no longer desire to be a part of your organization. We are hereby tendering our collective resignation and would like you to cancel our names from the register and cease collection of membership dues forthwith. We sincerely appreciate your time and attention on this matter.”

The only answer you’ll ever get is “Hell no!”

But Scalia can only speak for the organization of which he is a part and the rights that it recognizes or not: USG. But if you can effect a secession no matter what USG thinks about it, then I guess you have exercised a “right” to secede, don’t you?

Clayton -

No. Any people group has the right to self-government, especially of the size of states. The “rights” acknolwedged in the Constitution are not bestowed on individuals but rather recognized and protected against any encroachment of government. The right to secession is an inalienable right. Furthermore, the Constitution is a compact among the states to create an agent/entity to act in the states’ collective best interest. The USG has no right to force us to remain part of that compact if we no longer desire to do so. Also, law and governments are arbitrary. It has no absolute right. But of course they’ll say “Hell no!”

[JackCuyler]

I think Scalia’s right - what are you going to do, draft up a letter that says “Dear Sirs and Madams. This letter is to notify you that we, the undersigned, no longer desire to be a part of your organization. We are hereby tendering our collective resignation and would like you to cancel our names from the register and cease collection of membership dues forthwith. We sincerely appreciate your time and attention on this matter.”

You may write a letter that says something like:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

[John_Ess]

Another funny thing about the petition is that many of the signers are in different states than the one requesting secession.

Probably it is the same people signing each of the petitions rather than thousands from each state.

[FlyingAxe]

A new petition demands deportation of secessionists: http://www.examiner.com/article/secession-debate-turns-ugly-as-new-petition-demands-deportation-of-secessionists

[FlyingAxe]

@shackleford

Apparently, Scalia says there’s no right to secede.

What a joke.

Scalia’s definition of a ‘right’ is different from libertarians’ definition. Scalia seems to think that rights are created, not discovered. So, in Texas, the way the state defined ‘the right to have sex’ is ‘between a man and a woman’, and Scalia sees no problem with it (I am judging by his comments re: Lawrence vs. Texas).

[Porco_Rosso]

@FlyingAxe

A new petition demands deportation of secessionists: http://www.examiner.com/article/secession-debate-turns-ugly-as-new-petition-demands-deportation-of-secessionists

Oh boy, now they show their true colors.

[SkepticalMetal]

@ FlyingAxe

Yeah! Deport people for their opposition to slavery!

This kind of reminds me about how when anybody says something controversial, the fascist chant “USA, USA” is used to drown them out in a sea of arrogance and jingoism.

[K.C_Farmer]

So far over 675,000 people have joined the petition in about a week.

I do have objections to this:

1. I do not support a “new” government. This government versus that government is a false choice.

2. One response to these petitions would be a dictatorship, which I think Obama would be more than willing to accept.

3. I think the administration may/will abuse this information gathering exercise to identify dissidents.

[cab21]

let’s say each state becomes it’s own separate nation.

these states are abusive, it would mean the states get to do some of what the federal government is preventing them from doing now. each state all still has oppresive plans for it’s people.

[shackleford]

@cab21

let’s say each state becomes it’s own separate nation.

these states are abusive, it would mean the states get to do some of what the federal government is preventing them from doing now. each state all still has oppresive plans for it’s people.

Oh, yeah, because the federal government is a staunch protector against abuse.

[RagnarD]

Now all 50 states, and 7 have passed the 25,000 signature threshold.

[cab21]

it is a protecter against some abuse, it likes to be the one that get’s to abuse.

[Aristippus]

The establishment will love this movement. Another way to divide the populace against itself and to demonize the opponents of centralization!!

[shackleford]

@cab21

it is a protecter against some abuse, it likes to be the one that get’s to abuse.

The federal government does not protect against any abuse.

[Anenome]

@JackCuyler

You may write a letter that says something like:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

The Declaration has no legal force, as others have discovered. Even the original writers of that had to fight their way out.

[Anenome]

At least it’s movement and making national headlines. This angst means we can parlay this feeling into education about true libertarian ideals. Republicans the nation over will be more receptive to libertarian conversion than ever, because they’re looking for the answer.

It’s the question that drives us: what is the matrix. It’s the reality that’s been pulled over your eyes–in the form of an ideology that tricked people into accepting slavery.

And Rothbard is our Morpheus.

[shackleford]

@Anenome

At least it’s movement and making national headlines. This angst means we can parlay this feeling into education about true libertarian ideals. Republicans the nation over will be more receptive to libertarian conversion than ever, because they’re looking for the answer.

It’s the question that drives us: what is the matrix. It’s the reality that’s been pulled over your eyes–in the form of an ideology that tricked people into accepting slavery.

And Rothbard is our Morpheus.

Who is Ron Paul in your Matrix analogy?

[Anenome]

@shackleford

Who is Ron Paul in your Matrix analogy?

Ummm, Trinity. Definitely Trinity

[Aristippus]

And Neo is some kind of autarchist sea-steader?

[Anenome]

@Aristippus

And Neo is some kind of autarchist sea-steader?

Lmao, well Zion may be a seastead, but Neo is any republican looking for the truth, and the truth is libertarian.