Are you making fun of me ? You are the one claiming that - I’m denying it.
Whoever said having a free will means being utterly free from the constraints of the physical world, including one’s biology? It might just be a matter of degree, and not ‘either/or’. In fact if one defines free will as the capacity to override one’s baser desires, the possibility of failing to do so looms large.
-Jon
Juan
sorry to interject, but I don’t see where Byzantine said such a thing. YOU said it. What kind of discussion can you have by putting words in other peoples mouths.
Byzantine does NOT contradict himself!
Martillo, did you read the whole thread ? It seems not…
Do you think that blacks, for instance, are bound to be criminals because of their ‘biology’ ?
How’s that pertinent to what I said, namely that free will does not entail complete freedom from natural constraints? There’s no inherent contradiction in what Byzantine said, provided you define free will from the outset.
-Jon
To follow up on Jon’s comment, the prerogative of a just society is to reward meritorious behavior and punish pathological behavior. Thus, you change the culture, you change the breeding patterns, and six generations later people who were formerly in the muck are now out of the muck.
Great Britain is an example of a society that is running this process in the other direction.
Do you mind answering my question ?
Yes Juan, Byzantine first said “Short answer, Low IQ”, he did NOT say that it caused anything beyond a persons will.
Answering your contrived opinion polls does not interest me. I made my point.
-Jon
You made no point. What’s the problem, you don’t want to openly state your beliefs ?
But I did. I demonstrated there is no contradiction in what he said.
-Jon
Martillo,
Here’s what Byzantine said
Do you mind explaining to me what’s the connection between crime and IQ according to Byzantine ?
You assert that all people have free will. Therefore, the fact that some people live in squalor and violence is a matter of personal choice, because despite the universality of government anti-market policies, many people, even poor people, maintain their environments as clean and safe.
IOW, Stranger is right. And people incapable of moral choice must either abide by the decisions of those who are or they must be removed from free society.
Juan, I see where you’re coming from. I have put out some examples of observable behavior that illustrate the same thing. I said “Crazy stupid people love to party”. These are impulses that people choose to follow.
So using an observation to SUPPORT a hypothesis is not postulating a new hypothesis. We are offering some evidence to support theory, because theories need to be tested empirically. A world of pure theory can lead beyond our universe, like “STRING THEORY”. You get so far out, and there is no way to test it.
I do. You don’t ?
Some people may indeed choose to live in slums because they like that ‘life-style’ while other people live in slums because they are especially affected by anti-market policies.
What do you mean by that ? Are you saying that not all people have free will ?
Fine, so some people choose to party, out of their own free will, right ?
Correct. But the thing is, your hypothesis is not the same as Byzantine’s. You’re saying that people party because they choose to. Byzantine is saying that people steal and rape because of their low IQ. Two wholly different hypothesis, no ?
You know Juan, my position has been pretty well laid out on this thread already. You, on the other hand, selectively quote other people’s replies, never construct a logical, syllogistic argument and refuse to engage the issues actually under discussion. Carry on with whoever deems it worthwhile.
NO JUAN! Two different observations to support the same hypothesis. Look again at what Jon said, please!
I asked Jon a plain question which he refused to answer. I asked Byzantine another question (“Are you saying that not all people have free will ?”) and he didn’t answer. Why would they do such a thing ?..