Wesker1982, That’s what I’m talking about! I think he hits the proverbial nail on the head. The “love it or leave it” is an intellectual cop-out that SHIFTS THE BURDEN of a well-reasoned, honest answer. This is probably my ego talking but, I wish I would have thought of that! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Maybe I can take these dialogues to another level. We’ll see.
“By living in this neighbourhood you’ve agreed to pay my levies” - Mafia Boss
GooPC, Right on! I actually did find that Roderick Long reference in my files (oblivious to the fact that I had it all along. I like him. He seems very intelligent.), so thanks for the reminder and the extra example too. This site is fantastic!
I usually answer as follows: My political philosophy as a libertarian is much closer to that of the founding fathers. Your knee jerk position is more like the Nazis (or Communists whichever fits). So maybe if anyone is to leave this country it should be YOU!
Everyone who is not in total agreement with the status quo should leave then. Obama should leave because he wanted a different health care system.
It’s a stupid argument and people who use it aren’t open to honest discussion. They don’t want to discuss anything, they just want to show how wrong you are. Everyone who says that in a discussion raises a big red flag saying: “I am waisting your time”.
I usually just say: “I do like America. I just want to make it better.”
Most people are super-sensitive when you bring up race, so I like saying that if I were Rosa Parks and objected to being told to sit in the back of the bus, you would say “If you don’t like it here then leave!” No, how about if you racist Americans change?
“Those who are not free to secede are in effect (partial) slaves to a king, or to a tyrannous majority under democracy. Nor is secession to be confused with the mere right to emigrate, even when one is allowed to take one’s property out of the country. Secession means the right to stay put, on one’s own property, and either to shift alliance to another political entity, or to set up shop as a sovereign on one’s own account.
Why should the man who wishes to secede from a government have to vacate his land? For surely, even under the philosophy of statists, it was the people who came first. That is to say, the state is a creation of the people, not the people a creation of the state. But if a government was once invited in, to provide certain services, then it can also be uninvited, or invited to leave, or expelled.
To deny this is to assert that the government was there first, before there were even any people. But how can this be? Government is not a disembodied entity, composed of creatures other than human; rather, it is comprised of flesh and blood, albeit for the most part evil, people.”
-Walter Block