Should an ancap join a libertarian party?

Go to a few meetings, if they convince you then sit on the fence and see how they behave in the short run. I’ve seen too many good movements ruined because they were ready to compromise on their core principles but not on the details.

Do not be held back if you find old style leftists in there: I myself come from the left (and I still have deep sympathies for movements like the EZLN) and you are bound to discover that most people will join leftist parties not because they are followers of Marx or believe in controlling the means of production but out of an idealistic thirst for justice. Socialists and Communists have been very able at exploiting these persons with their slick dialectic.

What can you tell us about the EZLN? Arn’t they anarcho-socialists?

I think anarcho-socialist is the best (though not perfect) way of describing them. The EZLN was founded by people from different ideologies: maoists, disaffected castrists who believed that Fidel “betrayed the Revoluciòn”, old zapatists and many, many anarchists. Marcos himself is believed to come from an anarcho-socialist background. The Teologia de la Liberaciòn movement (condemned by the Catholic Church and much adversed by Pope Bendict XVI when he was at the Holy Office) is also believed to have had more than a passing influence. None of these movements left a very definite print and Marcos always stressed that the EZLN is “not marxist” though there isn’t a true manifesto describing the ideals. One of the core beliefs is the principle of direct democracy of which the Juntas de Buen Gobierno are the most important part as well as the fact that all offices are temporary and officials “mus obey the people”: that’s why very few personalities emerged from the EZLN. They are quickly replaced by disaffected people. The dialectic of the Selva Lacedemona Declarations hint at the maoist and castrist influences, particulary when “capitalism” is not described as an economic model but as the underlining ideology of the “fatcats” colluding with an oppressive government to make money and keep people in misery.

Wow, seems like I am back in the old days! [:D]

To the OP:

The only thing you could probably do anything remotely constructive in politics (currently) is become a secessionist candidate & keep your more radical ideology in stealth, as secession is not merely a niche topic any more.

So basically, advocate panarchism, if you want to use that label. I don’t think you will be successful, but hey, it’s your time not mine :slight_smile:

Socialism isn’t really the left.

We are the left.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard33.html

Today is the meeting, so I think I’ll be present but as a “guest member” or something like that, hahaha. I’m not interesented in joining (so far), because I don’t believe in politics, but well, at least I should be able to convert a few to the ancap movement. :slight_smile:

Trying to re-define the left / right is epically retarded and an exercise in futility.

From experience, it is far more productive to dismiss both the left and right, explain that the extremes are both socialism and the paradigm is this flawed and not complete at all.

The answer lies outside the box. Forwards towards freedom or backwards towards tyranny.

Bravo!

There is no libertarian right. They have all rebranded as pan seccessionists, national anarchists, paleo-conservatives, paleo-libertarians, anarcho-capitalists etc.

But the left, man, they love to beat the drum about how left they are. It’s pointless.

May I ask how did the meeting (and presumably some others following) went? Are you joining? There´s a similar new minarchist party in my country (although with some old faces from the biggest party in the country), so me and my similar-minded friend were thinking about joining… I´d like to know your experience.

You are a free man, but… Libertarian and statist?

I’d say… Beware!

I joined a Ron Paul meet-up group last march. Most, not all of them just wanted Ron Paul for the same reason many people voted for Obama. The name of the group is reno son’s and daughters of liberty. (I haven’t communicated with them since about the beginning of april.) The organizers are FEE contributers, but the rest are rank and file republicans, or people looking for something to be a part of i.e. they follow the best demogouge. I left because it appeared that the republicans co-opted and took over the small movement. All the fancy rhetoric and such. Maybe they are different now, I don’t know, but that is my anecdote. Take it for what it is worth.