To elaborate just a bit, Nielsio, even the most loving parent in the world may simply be inept at getting through to his or her child.
My definition of love excludes ineptitude of communication. Also the notion that you need to ‘get through’ to a child works under the assumption that children are not naturally interested in learning about life. Again, I do not work under that assumption.
Bull. I have a close friend who went through something similar to these kids. She had never been abused in her life, but she decided she needed counseling and went to a feminist resource center. Her feminist counselor decided that her lack of self esteem was due to sexual abuse. She denied it, but after a while, she finally gave in and said her father had raped her. Then her brothers had raped her. And, responding to suggestive leading, named many other people. By the time it was done, she had accused several people of carrying out a sadistic sexual orgy wherein men subordinated women to all kids of abuse in order to assert male superiority. It tore the family apart. She ended up in a mental hospital, and after a year or so finally learned that the repressed memories were no memories at all.
Her parents, loving. Her brothers, loving. Her descriptions of abuse? Not only were they unlikely, they were impossible.
So you automatically blame somebody else? No. If somebody is abused, they are abused because abuse has occurred. Somebody having low self esteem is usually due to the person’s own lack of purpose in life.
When else would it have happened? The future? How do you report a rape that happened in the future? Three years from now, my father will rape me?
Oh, wait, I guess I misunderstood. Up till now, it was leaving at the behest of Stef. Stef’s insight. Stef’s volition. That’s what I oppose. If a kid up and decides, without the suggestion of Stef’s so-called “coach”, that he should leave home, I’m all for it. I left home at 15 and never the worse for it. Wasn’t abused, but left to find my own way and it all turned out okay.
So which is it? Stef’s insight? Or the kid’s own decision?
I. Don’t. Know.
You. Don’t. Know.
Stefan. Doesn’t. Know.
Conditions of ignorance call for restraint, not extremity, in action. With such high stakes on the line, you should not tinker with that which you do not understand.
Sounds like a cult’s talking points. You don’t have kids, do you?
Well, I’m not going to reopen this old topic yet again, but I will say this:
I believe that it is a consistent application of the nonaggression principle to tell adults who claim that they were beaten, terrorized, and physically or sexually abused as children, that what was done to them was immoral.
I am very proud about taking this clear ethical stand, and urging adult victims to get professional help, and to talk with their families about their experiences, thoughts and feelings.
He doesn’t ‘actively promote’ those measures, any more than you just did, when you agreed that it is good to get away from abusive people. What he actively promotes is a happy life, and the ways towards that. If you search his 1600+ podcast feed for ‘defoo’, then you get less than a dozen hits.
Again, I would urge you listen to some of the stories (the entire story, not just the postcard-stuff). This will show you that hearing the “other side” of the story is wholly unnecessary and -frankly- absurd.
EDIT: After seeing Stef’s last post I think that’s a good summary to close on for me too. If you don’t agree with those principles, then we won’t come to an agreement either way.
In adopting your own ad hoc, arbitrary definition of the common word “love”, which can only have the effect of hampering effective communication, you thereby exhibit a lack of love for your fellow man, according to very same ad hoc, arbitrary definition of the common word “love”.
My statement referred to the class “people who are abused”. Stefan tells specific people they should deFOO in a profound state of ignorance with regard to their lives and their true situation.
It’s not an “old” topic. For a great many, it will ever be a current topic so long as you continue your deFOO campaign.
Furthermore, a child, whether through accidental events in his life, or through his own neurological make-up, can still come to resent even a loving AND communicatively competent parent.
Preference through action. Freedom of association and ideas.
Care to make a point? Slogans are nice and all, but they do not serve as a likely substitute for premises followed by conclusions.
An individual should be free to associate with whomever they wish and not be coerce into associations in which they do not prefer. What exactly they prefer is shown by their actions.
Do you think that anybody here is suggesting otherwise? If somebody has suggested that people should not be free to act as they wish, or free to associate with who they wish, I’d love to see that suggestion.
So we are all agreed, stefan may act as he wish, and any of us that do not like it have that right.
There seems to be a bubbling animosity towards Stefan concerning what he is promoting and to some degree Nielsio. I see it as nothing more then basic tenets of libertarian theory. If an individual wishes to sever ties with familial contacts and it is voluntary, what is the issue at hand? Or it is simple preference to advocate strong family values through a non-forceful banter?
Yes, we are all agreed that people can act as they wish. Which is an entirely different issue from whether he should act in that manner. I can stand on the street and denounce Jews and homosexuals, but should I?
That aside, I’m curious about your intellectual honesty. Either you knew that was the issue being discussed, or you honestly thought that we were discussing what Stefan should be allowed to do. Which is it? Were you feigning stupidity, or was it sincere?
I don’t care if you’re Stefan or Scientology or whoever. Sticking your nose into other peoples’ family lives is ill advised. If people want to leave their families, do so. I did. But it’ll be a cold day in hell before I stick my nose into somebody else’s family life.
Viewers come to his website. I fail to see how he is sticking his nose in their business.