The Libertarian Revolution: The Proletariat Revolution?

[nirgrahamUK]

@laminustacitus

Government employees are a member of the so-called tax-paying class.

government employees if they are members of the ‘tax paying class’ are the non-tax paying members of it.

wut?!?

[laminustacitus]

@nirgrahamUK

@laminustacitus

Government employees are a member of the so-called tax-paying class.

government employees if they are members of the ‘tax paying class’ are the non-tax paying members of it

Government employees still pay taxes.

[nirgrahamUK]

I’m trying to resist the urge to quote Rothbard at you, but I will if you insist…

[laminustacitus]

@nirgrahamUK

I’m trying to resist the urge to quote Rothbard at you, but I will if you insist…

Take off the libertarian googles - the fact that government employees pay taxes is an undisputible truth, and ergo they are a member of the "tax-payer class.

[nirgrahamUK]

sigh

@Rothbard : Power & Market

One thing we know without difficulty, however. Bureaucrats are net tax consumers. As we pointed out above, bureaucrats cannot pay taxes. Hence, it is inherently impossible for bureaucrats to pay income taxes uniformly with everyone else. And therefore the ideal of uniform income taxation for all is an impossible goal. We repeat that the bureaucrat who receives $8,000 a year income and then hands $1,500 back to the government is engaging in a mere bookkeeping transaction of no economic importance (aside from the waste of paper and records involved). For he does not and cannot pay taxes; he simply receives $6,500 a year from the tax fund.

I love my libertarian goggles! I wouldnt want to see the world any other way.

what would you recommend?

[laminustacitus]

@nirgrahamUK

@Rothbard : Power & Market

One thing we know without difficulty, however. Bureaucrats are net tax consumers. As we pointed out above, bureaucrats cannot pay taxes. Hence, it is inherently impossible for bureaucrats to pay income taxes uniformly with everyone else. And therefore the ideal of uniform income taxation for all is an impossible goal. We repeat that the bureaucrat who receives $8,000 a year income and then hands $1,500 back to the government is engaging in a mere bookkeeping transaction of no economic importance (aside from the waste of paper and records involved). For he does not and cannot pay taxes; he simply receives $6,500 a year from the tax fund.

Tax consumption, and paying taxes are two different concepts - equivocating the two is economic nonsense designed to continue a political agenda, its things like these that are the albotrases around the neck of Austrian economics. For most government-employees (bureaucrats obviously included), the job is no different than that in the private sector other than the fact that it is the state that writes their pay-check; they still pay taxes even though their salary is derived from tax collections.

The amount of taxes one pays is not a function of the one’s tax-rate, and then one’s rate of tax-consumption, rather it is merely the former. That function, rather, is one’s overall rate of tax consumption - having a positive amount of tax consumption (recieving more than one gives into the tax-pool) does not make that person a non-tax payer.

[nirgrahamUK]

@laminustacitus

having a positive amount of tax consumption (recieving more than one gives into the tax-pool) does not make that person a non-tax payer

yes, of course, he goes through the charade of paying tax. if you think charades are significant then you have won this argument to your satisfaction.

[laminustacitus]

@nirgrahamUK

@laminustacitus

having a positive amount of tax consumption (recieving more than one gives into the tax-pool) does not make that person a non-tax payer

yes, of course, he goes through the charade of paying tax. if you think charades are significant then you have won this argument to your satisfaction.

Its not a charade: paying taxes, and benefitting from tax-consumption are two independent, though often interrelated, phenomena.

[Harry_Felker]

@laminustacitus

Government employees are a member of the so-called tax-paying class.

Yes the secretaries are part of the tax payers, as are the road crews…

The Government that Cain was talking about, I am sure, are the elected officials that do not pay taxes…

[nirgrahamUK]

@laminustacitus

Its not a charade: paying taxes, and benefitting from tax-consumption are two independent, though often interrelated, phenomena.

what sense of the word independent are you using, presumably not ‘not at all dependant’, since a government employee could not even go through the charade of ‘paying taxes’ from non-existant wages. and neither could a government employee earn wages, if other people besides government employees did not TRULY (non-charadically (sp?)) Pay Taxes.

[laminustacitus]

@Harry Felker

The Government that Cain was talking about, I am sure, are the elected officials that do not pay taxes…

All elected officials, at least in the United States pay taxes just like private citizens; public officials like the president, and congress members must publish their tax returns.

[Laughing_Man]

@laminustacitus

Take off the libertarian googles - the fact that government employees pay taxes is an undisputible truth, and ergo they are a member of the "tax-payer class.

If a government employee makes 40k a year and pays 10k in taxes [ This is Rothbard’s hypothetical situation ] then really the employee is only making 30k.

[nirgrahamUK]

All elected officials, at least in the United States go through the charade of paying taxes unlike private citizens who actually pay taxes; public officials like the president, and congress members must publish their tax returns, which is a fun joke if you understand the punchline.

[Laughing_Man]

@laminustacitus

All elected officials, at least in the United States pay taxes just like private citizens; public officials like the president, and congress members must publish their tax returns.

Yes but who pays the government salaries? Certainly not the government itself which does not involve itself in profit seeking adventures nor is it concerned with profit/loss.

[laminustacitus]

@nirgrahamUK

what sense of the word independent are you using

They are independent in the respect that the fact individuals pay taxes as a fact, and that concept should not be equivocated with the tax-consumption of an individual.

@nirgrahamUK

presumably not ‘not at all dependant’, since a government employee could not even go through the charade of ‘paying taxes’ from non-existant wages.

No employee could.

@nirgrahamUK

and neither could a government employee earn wages, if other people besides government employees did not TRULY (non-charadically (sp?)) Pay Taxes.

No employee can be paid unless their employer is able to gain revenue.

[nirgrahamUK]

@laminustacitus

They are independent in the respect that the fact individuals pay taxes as a fact, and that concept should not be equivocated with the tax-consumption of an individual.

well, just so i know the kind of independance you speak of…

anyhow.

given that i grant that government employees positively do go through the charade of paying taxes., even if infact, once accounting anomalies are understood ,one understands that they dont (in the significant way of speaking) pay taxes.

perhaps you will say why you feel the insignificant to be significant? why must i always mention the charade when i wish to highlight the truth?

i am very curious. to have these riddles answered.

[laminustacitus]

@nirgrahamUK

All elected officials, at least in the United States go through the charade of paying taxes unlike private citizens who actually pay taxes; public officials like the president, and congress members must publish their tax returns, which is a fun joke if you understand the punchline.

Stop equivocating paying taxes with tax consumption, the two are different. This is just libertarian babble.

[nirgrahamUK]

yes they are different, but the difference is insignificant.

your hysterics to the contrary are nothing but unreasonable babble
(regardless of what crackpot political ideology you hold to, given that you seem disposed against libertarianism)

[laminustacitus]

@nirgrahamUK

given that i grant that government employees positively do go through the charade of paying taxes., even if infact, once accounting anomalies are understood ,one understands that they dont (in the significant way of speaking) pay taxes.

They might be tax consumers, but tax consumption, and paying taxes are different - you are equivocating the two, and hence obfuscating the entire matter.

@nirgrahamUK

i am very curious. to have these riddles answered.

There are no riddles, just don’t equivocated tax consumption with paying taxes.

[laminustacitus]

@nirgrahamUK

yes they are different, but the difference is insignificant.

No they are not, there are no economic reasons why the difference is insignificant, though many political ideologies seek to equivocate the two.

@nirgrahamUK

(regardless of what crackpot political ideology you hold to, given that you seem disposed against libertaria

Blah, blah, blah.