The Libertarian View of Hurricane Katrina

[ozzy43]

I’ll follow in JonBostwick’s footsteps and make a list of the ‘proper role of government’ (if you believe there is auch a thing) regarding natural catastrophes such as Katrina. Only it’s a much shorter list.

1. Never establish State programs and systems which incentivize people to offload their personal responsibility to look out for and provide for themselves and their loved ones onto the State.

In such a case, the people of N’Awlins would have had to purchase flood insurance at market cost, they would have had incentives to ensure the levee system was functional, and in the event of failure of this system, they would have been prepared to help themselves and their communities rather than caterwauling for Big Daddy gummint to come save them. They would also have been armed, and crime would have been a non-issue.

The principle of subsidiarity also plays into this - the most effective level at which to address such issues is the most local level feasible for the scenario in question. The city was overwhelmed, so probably county, with some state assistance.

The point to remember - the point to ALWAYS remember - is that libertarianism, or anarchism, or what have you, does not promise perfection. Natural disasters are just that - disasters. Such events will always cause devastation and misery. The question is: under which system can such devastation and grief be most readily ameliorated. The answer is: NOT a despotic, unaccountable, cumbersome ineffective and inefficient State system.

[gloodnc]

They would also have been armed, and crime would have been a non-issue.

ozzy43: I agree with all of your points except this one. If everybody had been armed (but otherwise ill-prepared), I am not sure how we can conclude there that there would have been drastically less crime (for I hope that we can agree armed or otherwise, there will always be at least some non-zero level of theft, rape or murder in such circumstances).

[ozzy43]

@gloodnc

@ozzy43

They would also have been armed, and crime would have been a non-issue.

ozzy43: I agree with all of your points except this one. If everybody had been armed (but otherwise ill-prepared), I am not sure how we can conclude there that there would have been drastically less crime (for I hope that we can agree armed or otherwise, there will always be at least some non-zero level of theft, rape or murder in such circumstances).

Well, perhaps ‘non-issue’ is a stretch, because, yes, a non-zero level of opportunistic crime should be expected following any crisis of this sort, but I absolutely think that crime would have been much less of an problem than it was. Better?

I mean - if most everyone was armed, the criminals would know it, thus dampening their enthusiasm for illicit actions. I have long maintained that a well armed society would be a more polite, and far less violent, society. Women and older folks, especially, would be safer.

[Torres]

@kingmonkey

Hurricane Katrina was actually made worse by the government. You had people stranded for days on a bridge blocked by the military. You had police and military arresting people for refusing to hand over their lawfully owned firearms. You had a city and a State who kept people locked up in the Super Dome wear gangs murdered, raped and generally ran the place. The evacuation was screwed from the getgo by the inadequate response of the City and the State.

My basic view of that matter is this: First, Bush has nothing to do with Hurricane Katrina. He cannot be blamed for the “failures” of the federal government, FEMA or anything else. Why? Well, take out your handy dandy Constitution and please locate the section that declares the federal government has the authority to interveen in natural disasters. Oh wait…it doesn’t. That means when a natural disaster occurs the federal government IS NOT authorized to send troops into the State in which it occured. It is NOT authorized to organized “relief” efforts. It does NOT have the authority to take public funds from the public treasury and give those funds to private individuals and businesses for their benefit even if it is for “humanitarian reasons.”

Hurricane Katrina was the SOLE responsiblity of the City of New Orleans and the State of Louisianna. This might be one of the few things we can’t blame on Bush. If government had stepped out of the way and allowed charitable organizations and neighborhoods to organize the evacuation of the city everything would have been a lot better. Instead they let people die in the streets by taking all of the city buses away. Every single person in that city could have been bused out if the government had been in the way.

I agree. Here, in California, during the recent wildfires, the private citizen did a better job at taking action and keep things well and safe, while the federal government gave cell phones to people, bought with my mothers taxes! The federal government should stay out of doing anything in cases of natutal disasters. The community is much more reliable in these situations and not FEMA ands its useless spending.

[cees]

First off, Media misinformation is still prevalent because the superdome was not filled with gang murders and rapes. Actually, there were 6 deaths, 4 natural causes,1 drug overdose and 1 suicide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effect_of_Hurricane_Katrina_on_New_OrleansAt the convention center there was one believed homicide. In my Opinion, MSM, especially Fox were not even close to what was going on. My experience was vastly different from what FOX was reporting… if you could imagine that.I was among a group of local volunteers providing food distribution service within the first few days after the storm. I spoke to hundreds of people, poor, rich, black, white, Europeans, gangsters, the disabled, the elderly and so forth, all stuck in the same situation with no form of communication of what was going on, besides mouth to mouth.I remember this pregnant woman and boyfriend not knowing what to do. It was like people were in shock. I was trying to tell this guy, who had a vehicle, that he could just drive 50 miles west to a nearby hospital and everything would be alright. People were afraid to go anywhere. She was about ready to give birth and I’m not sure where they ended up.However, everybody was civil to us. Everyone would take one plate of food and were grateful. The Red Cross was only giving out Plums and Donuts at the distribution center since the storm… no real food. I heard that Blanco order that because she wanted the people to leave, so she didn’t want food to be given out.

Blanco was over her head but did not want to relinquish control to the Feds and finally did probably a week after. I feel she dropped the ball moreso than Nagin.

Before you start blaming the local government, you have to remember that virtually all lines of communication was down, police and law enforcement scattered and people were doing the best they could with what they had. It’s like the whole area was in a state of SHOCK.I used to live in California, and the first think people would ask me, “Why didn’t people just leave before hand”.

Many people don’t realize the demographic population of Louisiana. We have a very large disproportionate amount of poor, disabled and elderly people living in Louisiana. I saw an 80+ year old woman with mud stains on her blouse from wading through the cesspool of water. She was picked up wondering the highways barefoot 5 days after the storm, because her “..husband had given up”. Brave woman, I’ll say. I guess, it was her own fault for staying behind?

I’ve been in the middle of the Santa Ana Winds and Fires and they are a different situation from my experience. You have more wealthy people who can just jump in their BMW vehicles and leave. The local government has full use of communciations as well. That’s just my opinion, from my experience.

The current laws, however non-constitutional, DOES make Bush responsible, in my opinion. U.S. Citizens have paid many $$$ in taxes for the unconstitutional FEMA, so that Bush could appoint friends in office? I don’t believe he should be pardoned on that stance. So, if Bush is not responsible, I want my Freakin’ Tax money PAID BACK with INTEREST…

Do I expect the Federal government to be efficient in anything??? Not really. I do agree with you that the responsibility of local government is always better than federal. Our local shelters did an amazing job. Some of the shelters in New Orleans were substandard but again, they were doing the best they could.I think this was another interesting story I’d like to share with you all… there were a couple of gung-ho guys from our group who wanted to be serious and give some food to some housing projects. They took a truck to the worst of the worst areas of New Orleans where they met up with a bunch of gangsta looking guys. They didn’t know whether to run, lock the door or what, but as they got out of the truck with food, the very big young men started crying and giving them hugs. They were the first sight of people they’ve seen in a week since the storm and felt that they were left here to die.

[pairunoyd]

@Nathyn

I don’t consider compulsory taxation theft or, even if it is, the government’s injury to the citizens of New Orleans clearly exceeds any injury caused by compulsory taxation.

What do you mean by, ‘the government’s injury’, in the statement above? Are you saying that whatever standard of living that I don’t achieve is an injury caused by the government because the government could have stolen more money for me and made me richer? Maybe I’ve misunderstood you.