What praxeological precept(s) confirm anarchism over minarchism in providing for societal economic health AND societal security from external threats?

If you, a minarchist, demands checks and balances to keep PDAs accountable, would you not agree that anarcho-capitalists who are even more fearful of PDAs becoming minarchist states, would demand such checks and balances if they were appropriate?

Then, is there not a market demand for accountability and transparency?

Then, why can’t that demand be satisfied without coercion?

edit: damn typos – yuberries

No, because ancap society is not founded on the principle of limiting coercive power, accountabiilty, or transparency. These are artifices of liberal democracy.

maximal capitalism is founded on profit. as a result, if it is profitable to achieve desired ends by coercion, then coercion it is. Moreover, if it is determined profitable to achieve desired ends (security, wealth, power) by forming a cartel or monopoly of the dominate PDAs in society – then it will be done.

in sum, there is no provision in ancap society to deter or prevent the top 2-3 PDAs from forming a cartel and assuming absolutist power, angry shoesalesmen nothwithstanding.

in contrast, liberal democracies are founded primarily on the establishment of checks, balances, decentralization, and transparency of coercive power to forestall the emergence of absolutism.

it is the essence of liberal democracy.

Well, as you can see Ultima, this guy isn’t interested in knowing what freedom even means. He just makes blank assertions that his system is the best and everything else sucks, because his system has the right words written on a piece of paper and makes all bureaucrats infinitely knowdgeable and perfectly altruistic. He doesn’t know the very basics of the calculation problem and what profit is; things that even a dumbass like me can learn in a few hours.

So yeah, this will go nowhere indeed. Peace out.

I’m inclined to believe that you’re right, because voluntaryism is what I feel to be the right moral system for human prosperity and progress. --Ultima

Ancaps make the faulty assumption that actors in the free market are driven by morality, volunteerism, human prosperity and progress.

Actors are driven by achieving desired ends for themselves, not society in general.

Individuals, corporations, managers, employees, customers, et al will act in their own self-interest when it conflicts with morality, voluteerism, human prosperity, and progress.

Of course, the outcome of these self-serving actions in the free market generally leads to increased prosperity, stability, peace, and freedom. however, eventually parasitic and predatory elements in society will “game the system” to their advantage resulting in swing of the pendulum back toward statism and a decrease of prosperity, stabilty, peace, and freedom.

Note that statism is simply a means coercive parasites use to achieve an end. There are no checks, balances, decentralizing forces, or transparency to deter statism from emerging within the free market. INdeed, within a free society everything is possible.

sadly and predictably, we have seen the masses succumb to statism for self-serving motives when they know without question that it will damage society as a whole.

This is human nature.

one other tenet that ancaps reject or discount, namely the quote from acton “power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely”

I would even assert that this is a praxeological a priori that none can rationally and objectively deny.

To be specific

Yeah, and those principles will manifestate out of your head and out of the constitution to physically restrain the rulers for you. You keep thinking that, I don’t care.

You don’t know such a thing will be profitable; there are tons of deterrents possible; tons of reasons why they would lose more than they’d win; and the same thing can be said about any type of central plan you make. You make that argument against a PDA, but you don’t make against your superb minarchist ruler. Complete double standards, and it’s obvious now by the fifth time that you keep doing it, that you are completely biased and disregarding any position that contradicts the one you maintain.

Yes there are, and there may be as many provisions as people want them to be. As far your minarchy goes, there will only be as many as the constitution writer can think of - they either will be too many, or too few. He doesn’t know, because the ruler doesn’t react to demand. But again, keep thinking that your rulers are complete geniuses on how to restrain THEMSELVES. Joke of an idea, but you keep thinking that.

Joke joke joke. Bye bye.

I’ve never seen so many strawmen, and so many misenterpretations of praxeology in one post. Now bye.

Well, as you can see Ultima, this guy isn’t interested in knowing what freedom even means. He just makes blank assertions that his system is the best and everything else sucks, because his system has the right words written on a piece of paper and makes all bureaucrats infinitely knowdgeable and perfectly altruistic. He doesn’t know the very basics of the calculation problem and what profit is; things that even a dumbass like me can learn in a few hours.

So yeah, this will go nowhere indeed. Peace out.

and with one last strawman, he is gone.

namely, i have never been a proponent of statism.

however, I acknowledge the shortcomings inherent in human beings, namely their propensity to act as coercive parasites to achieve self-serving ends at the expense of society at large. Moreover, I advocate some measure of constitutional federal republicanism to forestall the emergence of absolutism.

In contrast, the naive ancap blithely skips to his doom by advocation a system that provides absolutely no restrictions on the freedom of these parasites to coalesce and gain hegemon status and absolutist power.

as I stated earlier, they reject the tenet that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Moreover, they naively believe in all freedoms except the one that projects and holds power most effectively, namely armed force.

and you wonder why there are ZERO ancap societies today or since the dawn of time.

Yeah, and those principles will manifestate out of your head and out of the constitution to physically restrain the rulers for you. You keep thinking that, I don’t care.-- yuberries

liberal democracies have been the purveyor of dramatic increases in civil and political rights since 1776.

we simply need to attentuate governments abuse of economic freedoms to complete the trifecta

moreover, liberal democracy is incredibly peaceful and interactive with like minded nations.

if you want peace, prosperity, and freedom while significantly reducing the risk of absolutism emerging --liberal democracy is the most viable system yet developed to achieve these ends.

You don’t know such a thing will be profitable

you dont know such a thing wont be profitable.

there are tons of deterrents possible;

there are tons of gains possible, namely the power, wealth, security, and freedom associated with hegemonic power.

tons of reasons why they would lose more than they’d win

tons of reasons why they would MAKE money. moreover, risk is part and parcel of a healthy free market. Those firms that intelligently assume risk see market share increase. THose firms that are risk averse decline and dissolve.

You make that argument against a PDA, but you don’t make against your superb minarchist ruler. Complete double standards, and it’s obvious now by the fifth time that you keep doing it, that you are completely biased and disregarding any position that contradicts the one you maintain.

like sam and the other ancaps you refuse to read my arguments.

namely, liberal democracy was created primarily as a deterrent to absolutism. unlike ancap society, liberal democracies have myriad checks, balances, decentralization, and transparency in the system to forestall the emergence of absolutism.

But again, keep thinking that your rulers are complete geniuses on how to restrain THEMSELVES. Joke of an idea, but you keep thinking that.

you, sam, et al ancaps dont understand the fundamental nature of liberal democracy, namely it is designed to watch and check those “genius rulers” who are likely to use their brillance and charisma to obtain absolutist power. in contrast, ancap society would reward men like alexander, ceasar, tamerlane, charlemagne, et al with greater accumulations of power.

in sum, liberal democracy creates institutions and tenets at its inception to force these potential despots to compete against each other in an endless (hopefully) and futile quest for hegemon power.

Joke joke joke. Bye bye.

nothing like a quick exit and the inane retort when you have nothing substantive, logical, or empirically supported to offer.

bye.

Your arguments can speak for themselves.

Rettoper - it is absurd to think that people will side against a dominate hegemon PDA – in reality, investment and venture capital will flow to the PDA that is gaining wealth and market share through an aggressive growth strategy, mergers, acquistions, and hostile takeovers.

Let us break this down. In order for it to be "absurd to think that people will side against a dominate hegemon PDA" It must be that a dominate hegemon PDA exists. Thus when I say

Just admit that your argument required as a prerequisite, a hegemon to already exist.

I am not making a strawman of your argument.

It has become clear to me that you are unable to hold a line of argument in your head even though there is a record of it all that you could look back upon. So any further argumentation will be futile.

and predictably your inability to identify a praxeological a priori to support even a shred of any of your empty assertions devolves into an ad hominem.

So’s your face.

sam,

Your arguments can speak for themselves.

and what does the preceding retort say about your arguments, or rather the lack thereof ?

Let us break this down. In order for it to be "absurd to think that people will side against a dominate hegemon PDA" It must be that a dominate hegemon PDA exists. Thus when I say

Let me break it down for you strawman.

A PDAs function to consumer is protection and security. Since security in the defense industry is a zero sum game, it is logical to assume that consumers will pick the most powerful PDA for security.

Using your logic, consumers would shun an aggressive PDA irrespective of its position as the most powerful PDA.

Moreover, you have never addressed the threat of the management of the top PDAs peacefully forming a hegemon cartel over coffee at starbucks one morning and declaring absolutist rule that afternoon.

I am not making a strawman of your argument.

It has become clear to me that you are unable to hold a line of argument in your head even though there is a record of it all that you could look back upon. So any further argumentation will be futile.

it is clear that you have offered nothing remotely substantive to rebut any of my lengthy arguments supported by case studies (what would prevent the top PDAs from peacefully assume absolutist power?) , empirical evidence (ancap society has never existed – despite the fact that anarchism and a free market existed in the detritus of failed nations, only statism and liberal democracy emerges from anarchism), and logic (economy of scale predicts large PDAs – power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely)

So’s your face.

and with the expected inane retort, the ancap is gone with a whimper.

Rettoper,

I could respond to each of your assertions, but I am exhausted by your forum writing style. Suffice it to say I disagree with everything you said. I agree to disagree, and am content to leave it at that.

Thank you for so arrogantly dismissing the criticism, your reputation is carried well. I would say vise-versa. When you have something concrete to argue with beyond boogie man assertions we can engage you more seriously. Until then you are simply a boogie-man fear mongering statist apologist. wow :slight_smile:

Fyi please stop dismissing Sams points as logical fallacies. Twice now I have presenteed websites to you which give nice introductions to formal logic, twice now you continue to embarrass yourself by not reading them. Dismissing your opponents argument, arbitrarily, does in no way grant your own failed attempts any additional merit.
You fail to demonstrate that you even know what a straw man is.

it’s nice how you criticize me for not offering a substantive post, but again twice you have ignored the calculation issue. Though, if I were you I wouldn’t touch that line of reasoning with a 10 foot pole!

this is sadly what your entire argument boils down to. This is not called logic, this is called an asseretion, an opinion. Your entire arguments foundation is built upon an unsubstantiated opinion. From there you can deduce any kind of nonsense you desire. Dissmissing this false premise as entirely un provable irradicates your entire argument.

Now logically, markets are shown to NOT be a zero sum game. Sorry to spoil your boogie-man fear story. Romantics always cling onto the fantasy…
Now what’s really ironic about your statement is that Sam offered no Strawman, but instead you presented a red-Herring of your own. In the process you completely DODGED his point. Way to play it honestly cowboy. It’s amazing that you expect us to take this seriously when you act this way.

Sam is not trying to predict human action as you are. What we do know is that people don’t only shop at the largest retailer, they pick and choose. There are not hegemonic retailers, grocery stores, ect…

We don’t need to. Cartels don’t work, or last. Austrian economics has already demonstratede this for us. PDAs that do this risk customers, and control of their own pricing, which means competitors can underminnd them.

No such case studies exist fantasy boy.

the same thing that prevents walmart from peacefully creating a retail monopoly. IE Markets and money.

as if it were relevant. ironically you hypocritically failed to providde evidence of a successful Liberal Democracy(a clear oxymoronic term)

let’s be clear here and remind everyone. The only one here in favor of hegemonic PDAs are you. And you certainly are not the beacon of logic here. You don’t even properly demonstrate formal logic.

Nice taunt, but trust me, he’s not whimpering. In fact you hadn’t even addressed his point. He has no reason to wimpier. You didn’t even try refuting him. In fact I don’t even know if you were addressing Sam directly at all.

the irony of a security monopolist lecturing us about hegemonic security is just over the top insane.

Thank you for so arrogantly dismissing the criticism, your reputation is carried well. I would say vise-versa. When you have something concrete to argue with beyond boogie man assertions we can engage you more seriously. Until then you are simply a boogie-man fear mongering statist apologist. wow :slight_smile:

Fyi please stop dismissing Sams points as logical fallacies. Twice now I have presenteed websites to you which give nice introductions to formal logic, twice now you continue to embarrass yourself by not reading them. Dismissing your opponents argument, arbitrarily, does in no way grant your own failed attempts any additional merit.
You fail to demonstrate that you even know what a straw man is.

it’s nice how you criticize me for not offering a substantive post, but again twice you have ignored the calculation issue. Though, if I were you I wouldn’t touch that line of reasoning with a 10 foot pole! --filc

another attack on the messenger and/or the manner in which the message is delivered.

nothing substantive rebutting any of my substantive arguments.

try looking in the mirror filc.

you have offered nothing substantive to the debate, save personal attacks on the manner my argument is delivered absent any substantive, factual, logical, or empirically supported rebut of my actual arguments.

filc,

this is sadly what your entire argument boils down to. This is not called logic, this is called an asseretion, an opinion. Your entire arguments foundation is built upon an unsubstantiated opinion.

if my assertions are illogical and false, then prove it with facts, empiricism, praxeology, and logic.

btw, just saying they are wrong is not credible.

In sum, it is you that have offered nothing but “unsubstantiated opinion” to rebut my empirically and logically supported arguments.

Now logically, markets are shown to NOT be a zero sum game. Sorry to spoil your boogie-man fear story. Romantics always cling onto the fantasy…

Pay attention strawman.

I challenge you to produce the quote in which I claimed that the markets are a zero sum game ! I was specific in identifying that relative strength among disparate and competing PDAs was a zero sum game. Moreover, I have stated repeatedly that other industries are not zero sum competitions.

specifically, I stated that PDA security relative to other PDAs is a zero sum game. IF a competitor PDA builds an aircraft carrier and all other conditions being equal, then the expanding PDA has greater security relative to all other PDAs.

In sum, it appears that you need to read more carefully before shooting from the hip with strawman arguments unsupported by nothing but opinion.

You stand corrected strawman.

filc,

Sam is not trying to predict human action as you are. What we do know is that people don’t only shop at the largest retailer, they pick and choose. There are not hegemonic retailers, grocery stores, ect…

Hypocrisy and contradiction run amok.

In the previous post you commit the very “sin” you accuse me of, namely your predicting what consumers will do !?!!

amusingly only an ancap can engage in this kind of paradoxical hypocrisy

In sum, I have repeatedly stated that during times of uncertainty and risk, consumers of security will gravitate to the strongest PDA. Hence, the market share will eventually gravitate to a few powerful PDAs who would benefit by forming a cartel to reduce the costs associated with conflict and competition.

The result of the formation of a hegemon cartel of the top PDAs is absolutism. Or there would be no societal structure to effectively deter this all powerful entity from assuming absolutist power.

“power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely”

We don’t need to. Cartels don’t work, or last. Austrian economics has already demonstratede this for us. PDAs that do this risk customers, and control of their own pricing, which means competitors can underminnd them.

absurd. you project the defense industry with other goods and services. Indeed, when monopolies form in industries separate from defense, consumers can find alternatives to satisfy ends. Moreover, since companies in these consumer goods and service industries are not in direct competition with one another, start-up enterprises can quickly emerge to counter the temporary monopoly. Indeed the more oppressive the monopoly the quicker the emergence of a credible competitor.

In contrast, the hegemon PDA can directly impede the ability of start-up PDAs to form. History is replete with myriad examples of hegemon, monopolistic state sponsored “PDAs” that have assumed and maintained absolutist power for decades without serious challenge.

you are correct to assume that walmart employees cant maintain their monopoly status by sacking start up retailers by force. however the naive and ignorant notion that hegemon absolutist status cannot be achieved and maintained by a PDA using armed force is debunked by randomly opening a single page in a history book.

note that it is obvious why there are no ancap societies today or ever since these naive faith-based hyper-worshipers of the free market discount the possibility of (1) a PDA monopoly forming and (2) that this monopoly could form absolutist power.

No such case studies exist fantasy boy.

here is a case study for you strawman.

what would prevent the top 2-3 PDAs from getting together over coffee and peacefully forming a hegemon PDA in order to reduce the costs associated with conflict and competition ? Moreover, once this cartel was formed, what societal mechanisms would be in place within ancap society to challenge the warrior class with all of the aircraft carriers, bombers, tanks, et al ?

Austrian economics has already demonstratede this for us.

you have misread AE and projected your views based on non-PDA industry monopolies that are not zero-sum or in direct competition with one another. Indeed I have read numerous arguments from ancaps who admit that a monopoly PDA cartel would form. however, they have never adequately addressed how society would counter any attempt by this cartel to assume absolutist power at the moment hegemony was achieved.

the same thing that prevents walmart from peacefully creating a retail monopoly. IE Markets and money.

again you have based your arguments on non-defense related companies and industries that are motivated by profit alone. In contrast, the PDA is motivated by securing power relative to its competitors, hence a zero sum game. PDA firms would frequently engage each other to protect clients interests. In contrast, walmart doesnt send employees over to target to sack their stores – among most industries the competition is indirect, hence monopolies in non-PDA industries can be challenged with impunity by new start up enterprises and industries.

as if it were relevant. ironically you hypocritically failed to providde evidence of a successful Liberal Democracy(a clear oxymoronic term)

manifestly absurd.

If liberal democracies are not successful, then no society or system on earth has ever been successful. Yet within the framework of liberal democracy we have seen tremendous increases in societal health, well, being, and freedom.

INdeed, liberal democracy has grown from 1 in 1776 to dozens today.

where liberal democracy holds sway peace, freedom, stability, and relative prospertiy reign. In sum, capitalism flourishes best under liberal democracy then any other viable system yet developed by man. Note that ancap is not viable since it has no history of practical and demonstrated success – indeed ancap society has never existed for more than a short time after the collapse of myriad statist regimes when government has been dissolved – yet predictably it is not ancap society that emerges from the detritus of failed states, it is usually statism.

let’s be clear here and remind everyone. The only one here in favor of hegemonic PDAs are you. And you certainly are not the beacon of logic here. You don’t even properly demonstrate formal logic.

strawman.

Moreover, your opinion ladened ad hominem deviod of fact, logic, and empiricism has not rebutted constitutionalist’s assertion that “power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely” or that economy of scale and division of labor will lead to the emergence of a warrior class of PDAs who subsequently coalesce to form a hegemon cartel that assumes absolutist power in the absence of any societal competitor who possesses battleships, bombers, tanks, et al.

It is obvious that I oppose statism and hegemonic PDAs. that is why I have been singing the praises of constituional federal republicanism which provides substantive checks, balances, decentralization, and tranparency to forestall the emergence of absolutism.

In contrast, the ancap leaves the door open for absolutism to form when among other possibilities a cartel of hegemon PDAs forms and establishes absolutist power in the absence of any serious competition.

Nice taunt, but trust me, he’s not whimpering. In fact you hadn’t even addressed his point. He has no reason to wimpier. You didn’t even try refuting him. In fact I don’t even know if you were addressing Sam directly at all.

the irony of a security monopolist lecturing us about hegemonic security is just over the top insane.

emotionalism deviod of fact, logic, and empiricism.

strawman assertion that I am a security monopolist when I support constitutional federal republicanism that takes extraordinary efforts to place checks, balances, decentralization, and transparency on the defense establishment.

In contrast to ancap PDAs who control funding, sea forces, air forces, land forces, training, oversight, command, control, intelligence, transparency, execution, and profits all by a single entity---- military structures in a liberal demcracy decentralize funding (taxpayer), allocation of funds (congress), oversight of military (congress), command (president), intelligence (numerous agencies), strategic forces (airforce), land forces (army), sea (navy), profits (defense industry), execution (warriors), support services (civilian), law enforcement (local and state government), militia (states) et al

In sum, defense establishment in a liberal democracy is anything but a monopoly. indeed, it is obvious to all (except faith-based ancaps) that the founding fathers intentionally creating competing and disparate agencies and levels of government over the levers of military power to forestall the emergence of a absolutist government.

the irony of a security monopolist lecturing us about hegemonic security is just over the top insane.

try looking in the mirror.

You criticize my unsubstantiveness with unsubstantive posts. The hypocrisy is amazing.

To the contrary, I have offered plenty of information, probablty 10 pages ago, which directly addresses your arguments. You have deliberately chosen to ignore those points and instead dwelled on petty things like namecalling, which you yourself have indulged in as well.

I did this. you ignored it. FYI If you understood the first thing about praxeology you would see how your entire argument is in conflict with itself.

Ok.

I win. All PDA activities are market activities. The production of security is an economic good just like anything else. You can’t sprinkle fairy dust over it and make this not so.

Now I CHALLENGE YOU!, to not use the word strawman for 3 days, and actually defend your arguments. Stop being evasive.

Umm.. lol. Ok look. I cannot BE a strawman, I can only present a strawman… This is why no one takes you seriously.

Correct.

All economic goods work the same. You are arguing that this is not true. Your argument is an assertion, an opinion. Nothing more. The rest of your post is an assertion. A Hegemonic PDA cannot afford to sustain itself. Prices shoot through the roof and competition comes onboard. This works the same with any other monopoly. You just want to pretend that security operates magically outside of the world of economics.

Strawman! See I can do it to. You don’t even know what a strawman is, and you evaded my point once again. You are in favor of hegemonic PDA’s.

Lol you taunted Sam, which is obviuosly an emotional outcry. And now you accuse me of being emotional? Lets remind everyone here what you said.

So who’s appealing to emotion again?

First off stop using the word strawman every 2 lines. Second off, you don’t even know w hat a strawman is. Finally, you ARE a security monopolist. It’s a fact and you overtly have admited to as much.

Your post had over 1000 words Retopper. Mosty of it was rhetoric, evasion, and besides the point. I would say that your getting desperate but this style of debate, largely revolved around evasion and not admitting to reality, is how you’ve argued since day one. 1000+ words retopper. Stop wasting your own time, and stop making us read rhetoric. Get to the point. If your argument was so solid, you wouldn’t need to post an 8 page essay justifying your own version of hegemonic PDA’s.

Retropper, I do not need to offer a 2000 word post to explain your position. Your position essentially is an assertion, one that states that security operates differently on the market.

(Stated Retroppers position in 16 words)

Fine, thats your assertion, but you keep vociferously asking me to prove otherwise. If you knew the first thing about logic you would know that the burden of proof lies with you. Not on us. It’s your assertion that needs defending. Prove to us that security functions outside of general market laws. Thats your task. You have to prove to US that this is the case. It’s up to you to prove to us that the sky is pink, we have no reason to argue and defend the fact that the sky is blue.

Do us all a favor and practice on your written/literary skills while you participate on these forums. No one wants to read 2000 word rhetorically verbose posts. Try and stick more to the point, don’t sidetrack.

Arms race do not apply to markets. You sir, is thinking of a statist relation, one subsidized and monopolized at that, because you don’t know what the market is even supposed to be.

We already told you your argument of economies of scale is invalid, because you in your childish arguments have only been saying “one jet better than no jet, two tanks better than one tank”, which is retarded. It does not always follow that having more is better, that’s neoclassical BS. You are not accounting for the many other factors many people have spoonfed you, and you just slap them away. Diminishing marginal utility makes each additional tank less useful than the last, yet still costs about the same; diseconomies of scale limits any firm’s size; customer’s subjective preferences that you can’t POSSIBLY expect to predict; and many more. You don’t deserve to be argued with. Keep thinking the more tanks the better. What’s one more economical illiterate going to do to the world? The state is already full of them.

filc,

another example of your strawman argument that misrepresents my assertions:

I challenge you to produce the quote in which I claimed that the markets are a zero sum game ! - rettoper

Ok. – filc

security in the defense industry is a zero sum game – rettoper

I win. All PDA activities are market activities. The production of security is an economic good just like anything else. You can’t sprinkle fairy dust over it and make this not so. – filc

IN sum, the PDA industry can use its hegemon status to DIRECTLY impede the competition by using armed force to forestall the emergence of competitor PDAs. In contrast, other industries do not have the means to effectively use armed force to deter competition – unless you consider an army of retailers armed with penny loafers in each hand “armed force”

Moreover, I make this distinction in numerous posts that you have misrepresented or dont understand.

All economic goods work the same. You are arguing that this is not true. Your argument is an assertion, an opinion. Nothing more. The rest of your post is an assertion. A Hegemonic PDA cannot afford to sustain itself. Prices shoot through the roof and competition comes onboard. This works the same with any other monopoly. You just want to pretend that security operates magically outside of the world of economics.

Again you dont understand a simple difference or you are engaging in a faith-based rejection of the obvious, namely the PDA industry is unique in that a dominant PDA can use coercion to DIRECTLY impede the emergence of a competitor PDA. Moreover, dominance in the PDA industry implies dominance over most centers of gravity in society, hence the emergence of a hegemon PDA leads to the establishment of absolutism that those in the “unarmed” industries cannot deter or challenge effectively.

Praxeology confirms the emergence of a dominate PDA via the specialization of labor and economy of scale.

Your post had over 1000 words Retopper. Mosty of it was rhetoric, evasion, and besides the point. I would say that your getting desperate but this style of debate, largely revolved around evasion and not admitting to reality, is how you’ve argued since day one. 1000+ words retopper. Stop wasting your own time, and stop making us read rhetoric. Get to the point. If your argument was so solid, you wouldn’t need to post an 8 page essay justifying your own version of hegemonic PDA’s.

Deprogramming impressionable faith-based adherents to a failed system takes bandwidth.

If my assertions were faulty, why do find it necessary to counter them with emotional, unsupported, and ad hominem rebuts deviod of fact, logic, and empiricism.

what is amusing that you keep coming back for more.