Notice how you focused on that, rather than the actual meaning of what I wrote. The meaning is that wives and girlfriends aren’t always in danger. Further, you keep creating strawmen. Seriously Giles: I expect better of you.
Look, I know you’re pissed because most people here don’t take your myth seriously. Fine. Whatever. Grow up, kid. Grow up or get out. And that’s the bottom line.
Ah yes, you and Max are the only ones doing anything, right?
Yeah, kill that noise right now, kid.
Tell that to the man who is choosing compliance or imprisonment (better yet savage beating/death)
I think there are some people it is not so natural, they can choose between crunchy and smooth peanut butter and they believe they are free, despite their words and actions are controlled…
Fair enough, but restriction can be so ingrained that freedom is death…
Look at the people around you that cannot survive if the US government falls… Let us play a little chess on this topic…
Government failure, looting has happened and now the food is running out, how many people do you think survived to this point, how many are ready to survive without the supermarket, electric, phone, police, etc.? People are so dependent on the society they are used to that they are unprepared to deal with others without money, without government, these people are not free, they have the restrictions on their liberty so deeply ingrained into them that they are not free, and fear freedom, as they should, look at Jacob Bloom, he is afraid of being free, and as such is catagorically consigned to slavery to the state, or death…
What I am saying is that there are people that are so dispossessed from freedom that it is unatainable for them
Listen, boy. I never claimed to be a “radical libertarian”, so I’ve no interest in investing in human capital aimed at “bringing down the state”.
No wonder I focused on that, it was the point I was making. That the individuals in question are honourable for fighting for a cause in which they believe, and fighting for that which they value. Nothing more.
No, I’m pissed because my Hoppe inspired warning sign that read “Warning: Trespassers Will Be Caught in a Perfomative Contradiction” didn’t work. Do you really think I’m pissed because a bunch of people on an internet discussion board don’t “take my myth seriously”? (What myth would this be?)
Then you probably shouldn’t be a hypocrite, little boy.
Hey, buddy, care to tell me how I’ve been hypocrite?
No, it wasn’t. Your “point” was an attempt at a strawman of saying that all libertarians are pacifists and hate any sort of military. Please don’t lie, Giles. Your words are right there for all to see.
Mmhmmmm. Now when you’re done having your tantrum, have a nap on your rug.
I expect quotations. I never said libertarians are pacifists, I just said they lack the balls to do anything.
You’re the Randroid here, your life is on perpetual tantrum against the “powers that be”.
as if there could be something wrong with that.
Bitching and moaning about people not doing anything while you insinuate that you are doing something–even though you’re not.
Now it’s time to put all this to bed, Giles. Take a day or two off and get a handle on yourself. No, I’m not banning you or suggesting it. I’m simply giving you a quid’s worth of free advice.
Oh, well then you think they’re cowards. Now you have to back that up. Go to it.
the man is either still fighting back or gave up… has choice.
they are choosing crunchy or smooth… the type of choices they are to make a judgement upon can be controlled which is why I wouldn’t want my liberty to be restricted to the point of self-defense as I’m being savagely beaten. I would hope to avoid that narrowing of choice.
I can understand somebody wanting to choose death instead of living when life’s conditions become so horrible.
Liberty, itself, is incorruptible. It’s act in body - me actually carrying forth liberty in my arms, legs, etc… - can be (1) a society fully recognizing and acting with respect to each others liberty (2) restricted to a debate with another person who doesn’t believe in liberty or (3) to a further extent that such a person doesn’t believe in liberty so much they don’t debate and dialogue they try to kill me. My choice in acting in liberty in the latter is restricted by another person and thus I act in self-defense, but in (1), (2), and (3) it is still the same liberty. Liberty can be abstracted in principle and thus why it is universal. It is not individual specific, though, specific individual possess liberty. Now if liberty for somebody is death, then what can I do about that. Suicide is horrible. Unless you had something else in mind about “freedom is death”.
You’re adding all these accidentals [3 Philosophy (in Aristotelian thought) relating to or denoting properties that are not essential to a thing’s nature.] in defining liberty. I understand lots of people may go crazy if they can’t get food. People get really angry if their cell-phone doesn’t work - really heated sometimes as is now. It is ingrained in them. I completely agree. I’m not quite sure how this fits into their not aggressing with anybody else, unless, you are saying that if all this is gone certain people will begin violating liberty in numerous places, I don’t know, but I the probably is high, yes. But what are you trying to say dealing with liberty in this context you’ve set up?
Liberty is within the person. People not realizing how restricted their liberty is, is undoubtedly why this culture gets easily stressed, is in a war every generation since the U.S. was founded, they get freaked out by snow, hyper sexualized culture Britney Spears, etc… A restriction of liberty leads to choices that become more base, more brute. Closer to animals than human with enough thought mobility and pride injected in this culture to keep them thinking they are being more intellectual when in reality they may not be being very thoughtful about life. And when the so called heavy thoughts, like liberty, impact their intellect they can’t handle it, shut down, and run away.
?
Glorifying the choice between crunchy and smooth while living in a cage is not a good stance for liberty, it is like being a slave and saying well, at least I can wipe my brow with my sleeve or my hankerchief…
Something else indeed, Freedom is death, meaning they cannot survive in a world where they are not entitled to the necessities of life…
No, I am explaining how freedom will kill some people, I am not defining liberty, but building a hypothetical crisis situation…
That some people, I do believe it is a majority, have reneged on the whole freedom bit, they believe their slavery they have now is freedom, and to be truly free will kill them, they are not free individuals, but domesticated animals, and without their shepherds they will perish…
I for one, feel bad for them, some are funny, some are nice, but I am no longer willing to trade enslavement for their survival, this thought may be draconian, but I know full well that if I and the others like me attain total freedom, the drones will not be able to sustain themselves…
Yeah, pretty much. Actually, the burden of proof is on you.
Well, unless the Rothbardians are taking their leave from this place, en masse, within the next two days. I think it’d need to be longer than that. But I’ll pass on the advice.
No kiddo.
I can relieve you of your illusion of choice, you know.
If you really want to, go for it.
Potential liberty is present. It is in the person. It never left the person is my point. But the actualizing of liberty into the world by such a person would be a horrible demonstration. I agree.
ok. Yes people give up their ability to act in liberty. Are we side tracking from the main crux of what seemed to be a disagreement?
Oh. So we’ve moved onto another topic. ok.
I completely agree. My only initial point was that liberty is within each person. People can “give it up”, but I think to state it that way may blur the actual locus of liberty. To “give it up” can denote something tangible, a thing called liberty, like a piece of wood was given from one person to another person. Liberty isn’t tangible in such a way. This was the semantics I was trying to avoid with Anarchist Cain. I potentially saw this coming. I can see the actualization of liberty - lived - and put into application by a person in relation with the rest of the world being restricted, but that means it’s become more potential and suppressed into a persons inner recesses. Nobody actually “took” it. Like a piece of wood can be “taken”. Restricted, suppressed, and made potential - yes - but not tangibly taken.
I’m headed that way. I’ve been slowly trying to walk away.[:)]
No this was what I was talking about the entire time… LOL…
This was why I switched to freedom, I should have noted such…
This is why I can see all of my property, short 30 sqft, from within my home…
Well, Bawaa, here’s my proof, you don’t even have the balls to ban me for a few days. Let alone “fight the state”.