It could be. Its taking the chance of going to war for a year or two, then getting back home and back to normal as possible. As opposed to having to leave home for some undetermined period of time, possibly never being able to return home. Just depending on home aggressive and persistant the state is in pursuing deserters.
However, if some had their way I would be strung up along side all the other murderers.
Because, as you have stated to me before, its not beliefs that determine what is criminal it is actions.
“Jesus died for your sins, soldiers died for your freedom… When you secularize an error, it’s still an error.” - Nathan
I think this quote sums it up pretty well.
I don’t know what you are trying to say.
That it is a loose/loose situation for a person put in that situation. They refuse to go along they will be imprisioned, killed, etc. They go along they are murderers/aggressors/all around bad guys.
why, if enough people refuse, there would be no war at all. As Einstein said: “Nothing will end war unless the people themselves refuse to go to war.”
I personally wouldn’t kill anyone if someone ordered me to. I would most likely kill the one who gives me an order.
I agree. However, in the reality that we currently live in this is not the case.
Easy to say in a theoretical setting, but very different when you are swept up by forces stronger than yourself. There is a steep price to pay. I hope you never have to make that choice.
So here is a question, the next time someone screams at you and says “These soldiers died for your freedom!”
How can you best respond to inspire their thought and not be too offensive?
Really depends on what you have said to elicit that response. On second thought once you reach that point there is nothing that you can say.
I try to avoid getting to that point. When discussing the war “against terror” I try and demonstrate how the use of the military to deal with terrorism is like using a hammer to to sedate a patient in the hospital. Its the wrong tool for the job and only makes things worse. Keep it out of the realm of emotion where people feel you are painting their loved ones as monsters.
Being conscripted is not always an excuse. If you enter a war with a neutral attitude, your optimal chance of survival is to defect to the side that is winning.
That is not even close to being how reality works. Put yourself in the shoes of the draftees. You have been drafted along with your friends and family. You have been killing the enemy for months. What makes you think you can just switch sides? 1: the enemy would most likely kill you on sight or imprison you. If they imprison you the chances are you would never make it back home to see your family. 2: No one is going to just switch sides and start killing their friends and family. If they do then they have commited an immoral act in itself.
Have you ever been put in a situation of a draftee? Its a loose/loose situation. Get off your high horse.
Refusing to fight in a war after being drafted and rufusing to pay your taxes are not widespread actions for similar reasons. If one were to oppose the government and its actions and adhere to their beliefs then it would follow that that person would not pay taxes or fight in a non-revolutionary war. That rarely ever occurs in the real world because people value living life outside of a prison cell more then they value their stand against the government. As Spideynw says, “At most, I think only 5% of the adult population would need to stop cooperating to have real change.”
I never bought into it (that soldiers die for my freedom) before I learned about libertarianism. I’m sorry, but I just think most people are sheep. How many try to even challenge their traffic tickets? I challenged just about every one of my traffic tickets before I learned about libertarianism. I challenged them not on the basis of that I have no obligation to obey their laws, but to reduce the fines. But I still challenged most of them. I have yet to come across someone that I expose these ideas to, that is really in the least bit interested. As soon as I heard about the ideas, I became very interested. I think those of us that are libertarians are born with a desire for freedom. Most people just do not seem to be born with this desire. Most seem to be born with a desire to be lead. Of course I have no empirical data, this is all just conjecture.
People may never be inclined to question what they believe unless what ought not be said… is well articulated often.
The same thing that makes me think that you can refuse enlistment.
Better to lose killing your enemy, the drafters, than killing your enemies enemy.
I agree that majority of the people that I have come into contact with throughout my life behave as you described above. I agree that in regards to many issues some people may seem to behave as sheep. What I do not believe is that these people are less intelligent then myself or unable to learn to engage in critical thinking. If that were the case then anarcho-capitalism would be just as utopian as Marxism. There are many things that condition otherwise intelligent people to behave as they are sheep. Kids all go to school as children and are taught from the beginning to obey their teacher because she is their superior. Kids are taught not to question her and to walk in a straight line and say the pledge of allegiance or miss recess. Once these lessons are learned children are told stories about how Honest Abe never told a lie, how he grew up to become the greatest president of all time and then made to memorize these stories in order to pass their multiple choice test. Higher education functions basically the same with different incentives in place.
In order to for one to realize that they were lied to their entire life they must learn to look in the places they have been taught not to look. Places that tend to use flag words they have been condition to associate with negative meanings. For instance laissez-faire capitalism, anarchism, communism, etc… The initial step is the hardest to take because it goes against everything they have spent their whole life learning but once that initial step is taken personal revolution normally isn’t very far away.
Then spread the word, point out the fallacies, disspell the myth, liberate the population and one day truly be free.
There is other factors that come into play here that prevent people from challenging their tickets. For example I value 100 dollars less then I value the time wasted standing in a crowded courtroom for 6 hours.
I tell them I know people in the military.
I tell them I have heard firsthand from those people.
They have the least flattering things to say about the military as an institution.
A childhood friend of my father who died in the Kargil War had reservations about it. Most of his other military colleagues found it a petty and pointless war, and unnecessary waste for having so many people dead.
A retired and high ranking member of the navy was talking to me and my parents yesterday. He told us of all the false flag operations India was involved in, how it has assasinated leaders in neighbouring countries and within itself in past decades, and how those were made to look like killings by angry rioting dissidents. It’s typical business for them.
The biggest disservice to all those servicemen is to deny the truth.
You lose either way. So why would you kill people you know as opposed to people you dont?
Of course you could. But its an issue where you weigh the alternatives. You dont seem to want to acknowledge what has to be given up to make these choices. You want to paint a picture of a simple choice. Its not.
Im not sure you are giving people enough credit. Your subjective value scale is just different.
Time and energy is scarce. Most people value the time and energy that would be spent fighting a traffic ticket more than they value what little they would gain. No different from economic exchange. They arent interested in these ideas because the investment that it would take to make them reality is more than they feel they would get out of it.
Why would you kill anyone at all? Typically when one is drafted they get a letter in the mail saying so. This give that person an ample amount of time to flee or if they choice to stay and be thrown in jail. I rather spend my time in a jail cell then in a kill or be killed scenario.
The choice Is not very hard for me. It’s either live on the front lines with the fear of being killed for the duration of the war or to flee. I can’t imagine my quality of life ever being the same after taking another persons life.