No, you are living proof of a variation in the genotype. People like you are a very small segment of the population.
I think this idea of intellectual determinism is asinine. I wasn’t born an anarcho-capitalist and I’ve never met one. I don’t buy into the idea I’m some variation of a genotype - that’s some sort of mastubatory nonsense.
It turns out this is untrue. I talk with these people all the time, engage them. With some I have made some significant headway. I find that the more they like you, the more they will listen to you. I will be the first to lament that this is the way things are, but being that it is so, we can proceed with a plan of conversion. And this is not to say I have always been a perfectly friendly missionary of libertarianism either. I have gotten into some nasty discussions on the web, and maybe I was wrong to do so, but when I have engaged people, rather than bickered with them, I have had some success.
I understand, but I wasn’t proposing it as being fun. Rather I thought it would be good for humanity. Like you say, he has his reasons, and I have my reasons to be disappointed that he didn’t accept the invitations.
I do too. But I don’t agree with it. Even if things don’t become perfectly libertarian, they might become incrementally better.
BUT… you exposed them to new ideas. The first step in converting someone is exposing them to your ideas. You can’t know how many people were still thinking about it the next day, nor how many had a nagging voice in their head saying, “This guy actually made some sense, much as I hate to admit it.” Now what if someone follows up on what you did, and they hear yet again these ideas, perhaps packaged in a slightly different way, and suddenly they find themselves thinking about it again? What if ten years from now someone at your speech sees a book that reminds him of you and, years having past and the shock of it having worn off, he picks it up and starts to read, starts to become convinced, or at least partially convinced. What if he starts to drift in his political attitudes?
What you did was a good thing. I wasn’t there so I don’t know if you did it well or poorly or a mix of both, but the act itself was a wise one. We can’t just clam up even if the weight of opposing opinion feels like a tidal wave. I repeat: what you did was a good thing.
Neither do I, but then again, he does make a point. Either way, it doesn’t mean anything.
But again, it’s not black and white. So I propose we reach as many as we can.
I’m not asking you too. I am simply saying that in Lew’s case, where he clearly has chosen a life of keeping the flame alive and spreading the word, he is missing out on opportunities.
I ask again, how can you know they won’t hear me? Do you mean not a single one will hear? Are there varying degrees or are you saying this is black and white, and they are all of one uniform color?
And the shrill element, while wise advice, is something you are injecting. Of course the way you package the message is going to influence how it is received; that goes without saying. I wasn’t proposing that Lew go on the show and start screaming at the top of his lungs. He should be calm and rational as he always seems to be. Doing that, I think it unimaginable that he could go entirely unheard by the entire audience and not expose anyone to new ideas or make them think.
Amen.
Take the “Education is a right not a merchandise”, sounds awfully poetic doesn’t it? I ask questions like " Is free education a right even for those who pay taxes?". Sadly, all I get is “NO, YOU ARE WRONG, I CAN’T BELEIVE YOU SAID THAT!!!”. That’s fun to watch.
Yes, I enjoy seeing people with the seed of doubt in their eyes. That’s the only reason I enage in debates.
Ricky, you make a lot of assertions. Which genes do I have that differ from other non-libertarian humans? And why are my ancestors not famously libertarian by now? Why is it me slowly converting my dad and not the other way around, since he had 34 years before I was born to start exhibiting his genotype? How were my dad’s dad and mom inveterate racists and I am not?
By saying I am living proof of a variation in genotype, you are stating that the fact of my conversion to Austro-libertarianism is proof that the cause was genetic. Nonsense. The fact of my conversion is proof of nothing but the conversion. I would like to see evidence that my genes make me libertarian, that this is hard and fast and not a tendency, and that everyone else is the same way, i.e., I would like to see proof of iron-clad genetic determinism.
Even if our genes sway our beliefs - and this is something I would be disposed towards accepting - that is a long way away from outright determinism and therefore proselytising can still be worthwhile.
And from that seed something good can grow.
To what extent do you agree with the following statement; '‘the larger the crowd, the stupider it gets’.
I agree gocrew, I think he should go on the shows. But what can you do?
I happen to realize that I agree with you. I find that when I’m not hostile or arrogant when I share my views, people listen to me and actually try to understand me. I hate to be like that, I happen to be very idealistic but some people are just hopeless. see here https://forum.freecapitalists.org/t/get-a-hold-of-this-debate/17611/67
I don’t care if others agree with my thoughts or not. All I care about is living my own life. I do not believe my preferred political outcome will ever be a reality. But it is fun to discuss such a hypothetical scenario with intellectuals such as the ones over here.
He’s just describing his own failures of having an impact. It’s a self-perpetuating idea that you can’t influence people. And then we see this guy not producing things to educate.
I understand, but I wasn’t proposing it as being fun. Rather I thought it would be good for humanity. Like you say, he has his reasons, and I have my reasons to be disappointed that he didn’t accept the invitations.
A libertarian that sacrifices his own private life for the greater good? That’s not a libertarian in my book. Being a libertarian isn’t about spreading the word and try to convince everyone to be free.
That’s pretty much it, I doubt any libertarians are out there to force others into conversion. There is a chance that anarcho-capitalism might happen one day, alot of people have been coming to this political movement(mostly because of Ron Paul). One thing is certain, libertarian ideas will atleast be adopted, it’s not going to happen over night.
I’m trying to understand Somalia, some people have told me it’s terrible because of the Islamic religion but somehow I doubt that.
Don’t you have to do that when everyone else is convincing you otherwise?
Really? You don’t think encouraging others around you to move toward liberty wouldn’t end up in more liberty for you? That seems like worthy enough a sacrifice for some of my time… You’re going to tell me that somehow I’m NOT a libertarian for being willing to donate my time to encourage/foster liberty in my peers? Hmm…
“I think these outlets are beneath any thinking person.”
Isn’t that being a snob?
Gocrew, I don’t think you appreciate the simple fact that television people pride themselves on their lack of manners.
Example 1: One TV anchor referred to Scott Brown’s daughters as “prostitutes”, even though these were junior school girls still among immature peers who can make cruel jokes.
Example 2: David Sirota lashed out at a debate opponent television by telling him, “You get your opinions from cocktail parties”.
Whatever I know of American television is from YouTube. I would not give those people the time of the day. In real life, the most offensive thing anyone ever says to me or I ever say to them is, “I don’t want to speak with you any further.”
PS: May be it is not a television thing, but an American thing to lack courtesy and manners when talking? Apologies in advance to American posters if I am wrong.