There is a line, and I think you just crossed it.
this has gotten all terribly collectivist. black people, what are they? do you mean each individual black person, does each individual black person have an ‘average’ iq. what is the point of this.
p.s. im a jewish ninja so you cant see me in the dark. case closed.
No not really. I prefer my elementary school friends to my gymnasium acquaintances. Theyre decadent and think they grabbed god by the testicles. High on IQ and low on wisdom and common sense, and wont back you up in a bar brawl either.
Intelligent people have too much imagination for their own good, get bored easily, tend to moodines and self-destruction. They make the highest proportion of slackers and bums. I`m pulling this out of my arse, but it sounds as credible as your thing. If anything crime requires some imagination, if you need money the immediate solution is to sign up for burger flipping.
People arent dumb to the point where they will just rape or hit someone on an impulse. That just doesnt happen unless we are talking raised-by-apes-in-the-jungle here.
I dont know? Failing to note locking up someone for 20 years isnt going to make his family rich???
Anyway, I challange anyone to come up with a historical example of where a people which felt itself subjugated by another people made good enterpreneurs. Anyone. Just one example. And I don`t mean diaspora of a subjugated people (or a diaspora people ie a people without a homeland). I mean a subjugated people in their homeland.
How come the Catholics of Northern Ireland were up until a few decades considerably poorer than the Protestants? Some of it was racism yes, it was harder for a catholic to get a job in civil service, but surely they could have made it as buisiness men? Why didn`t they on average? Why did they on average in the 1960s live in considerably worse neigbourhoods, in worse housing than the protestants? IQ differences? Or was it that they were bitter, demoralised and preoccupied with something else?
Didn’t Walter block attribute lower test scores among blacks compared to whites and asians due to the cultural differences in each family’s household?(White and Asian parents pressuring for higher grades than a B- whereas black parents are satisfied with a C grade). Not biological differences.
I suppose this is anecdotal evidence but I’ve lived in Jamaica, Queens New York City all my life- and graduated from public schools where the population was something like 85% black. I never saw any reason to think that low test scores could be attributed to anything but the environment and culture. The culture in many black households is that the “system” simply doesn’t work so what’s the point in trying(and since its possible to convince people like this otherwise- I still don’t see how its a genetic factor that they are doomed to failure). But immigrants like blacks from Haiti have a completely different household culture and that’s why many of them end up going for professions such as Nurses, Accountants, etc.
Again..more anecdotal evidence but- I don’t know how many people here have experience with the NYPD- but many of the cops are as racist as they come(they’ll openly admit it when you’re sitting in a cell being processed at central bookings). There are many times where a white person will simply be “warned” for walking between the subway car doors(which is illegal in NYC) while the train is running- while a black person is told “put your hands behind your back, sir” and end up spending a night in jail. Black police officers tend to be a lot less proactive than white officers in the NYPD- and I suppose I don’t have a statistic to prove it- but I think most minorities here will agree that White officers are the ones you have to watch out for in New York City. I don’t think its because Whites have a biological tendency to be oppressive- but maybe that racists have a tendency to become officers?
That is what we’re talking about here. Again, I’m willing to bet your existence is likely confined to an upper IQ white middle class demographic.
Could be IQ–I don’t know. I do know that being bitter and demoralised is a choice.
Aren’t American blacks a diaspora?
I’d grant your point if, for example, you had a conquered people forbidden by law to own property.
Come to think of it, Arab Christians in the Middle East seemed to make it even under dhimmi. The Anglo-Saxons ended up absorbing the Normans. The Mongol Empire got rolled up everywhere.
Public school is premised on the assumption that you can sit a bunch of people down in a room and give them equality of inputs and get equality of outcomes. Now, the excuse of parental involvement is proffered but that just moves the inquiry back a step. Why is it that white and Asian parents on average push for high achievement and black parents on average do not? People generate culture.
I think a lot of pathological individuals become cops, but all people generalize based on experience. And experience shows black men constitute around 6% of the population and account for about 50% of its violent crime. Again, that’s why you’d hesitate walking thru a black (historically oppressed minority) neighborhood but wouldn’t think twice about walking thru a Jewish (also a historically oppressed minority) neighborhood.
What?
White? Yeah, sometimes we get thought of as such. At other times its untermenschen and more colorfully Th**e Eastern Hordes however.
Middle class? Hell no. As “blue collar” as it gets.
No argument here. But I would argue it is a legitimate choice.
No, a diaspora wouldn`t get the idea to carve up parts of Alabama and Georgia for a state of their own.
Those are all examples that predate modern understanding of identity.
Admitedly I am not as familiar with the subject as I would like to be, but Christian Arabs didn`t consider themselves a seperate people, they were not nationaly awakened. In fact if I recall modern pan-Arab nationalism was the brainchild of Christian Arab intellectuals.
Anglo-Saxons at large did not feel they had much of a stake in wether they were ruled by local or foreign nobles. Similarly to say Croats who saw no reason to object when a Hungarian king inherited the Croatian crown in this same timeframe. Also the Anglo-Saxons culturaly absorbed the less numerous Normans, that is not the same as flourishing as buisinessmen to raise themselves out of poverty. It was a feudal not capitalist society anyway.
Because I pointed out that black people have… black skin?
No. It’s a cop-out. Anybody can come up with plenty of reasons to be bitter and demoralised.
This implies blacks are an oppressed people in their own land. Actually, blacks have political control over a number of large, populous areas of the US. Doesn’t seem to help much, and it certainly hasn’t helped Africa. Also, you seem to believe that this really fine distinction explains the inequality of outcomes between blacks and other historically oppressed minorities, virtually all of whom have done better.
There are discrepancies in wages, prison population, and they are underrepresented in powerful positions.
So you start with the outcome you want: black people being represented in the same proportion in all things as they are demographically. Then you work backwards and figure out how to engineer society so this will be the case?
This is RACISM. The laws as they currently are punish the non-racist people. If I completely ignore race when hiring people and I happen not to hire a single latino I am making myself possibly vulnerable to a discrimination lawsuit. But the liberal “non-racists” want me to focus on race when hiring…
This issue would never come up if we lived in a merit based society. People would just do as well as they do. It is only when the state intervenes and has to decide who to arbitrarily favor that questions of race or other distinctions that have no bearing on merit come up.
So what? What does that matter to an inncer city black? You think that is going to placate him?
Its only a cop-out if you dont strike back. Dont you see its a resistance tactic? They arent doing what you want them to. They arent comforming. And its making you frustrated. Its not a consciouss thing, but its working non-the-less. And i imagine it is only the beginning. Its working, just not in the way you want it to.
What opressed minorities? USA doesnt have other minorities, except Mexicans and Indians. USA has diasporas. And youre repeating yourself so I have to repeat myself in turn. When those diasporas were raising themselves from gang ridden ghettoes the state was much smaller. An Irish illegal brewer did not get thrown into jail for 15 years for a non-crime. Big government stagnates economic growth and that cutts down on social mobility. By some indications USA has been - from the perspective of a working man - stagnant since the 1970s. An average paycheck does not buy you more gold today than it did back then. And before the 1970s there was real institutionalised racism so you really did have a dhimmi situation in relation to blacks.
As a side note, may I suggest that anyone interested in the question of racism, inequality for blacks, etc… look for a book by Thomas Sowell, called Black Rednecks and White Liberals. The man has put a lot of work into researching the subject, and has some very cogent arguments, put very readably.
In short, he claims that blacks, as a whole, have not reached their potential because white liberals keep telling them they’re downtrodden. (Okay - that’s horribly oversimplified, and not entirely accurate - but it’s as close as I’m gonna get in less than 2 pages of synopsis here.) He demonstrates, quite convincingly, why Affirmative Action is actually harming African-Americans. Almost as much to the point, he compares the “average” white and the “average” person of Nipponese or Chinese ancestry, and uses the statistics to prove that there’s institutional racism against whites, bringing the whole “institutional racism” concept into question.
I recommend it highly, and wish Mises would start sellin’ his books. His economics, while more Chicago than Austrian, are also cogent, well-written, and remarkably convincing.
Easy to read for those of us without strings of initials after our names, too.
Danno, the well-read, underedumacated one.
OK I am just going to interject here. The average IQ among “Whites” in the USA is ~100, the average IQ among “Blacks” is ~70. Around the turn of the 20th century when IQ was first invented, the average IQ for american “Whites” was also around 70. IQ is shown to be connected to environment. The genetic variation between the average “White” guy and the average “black” guy is no more than the genetic variations between two “white” guys.
Psychologists have done inductive experiments on animals that confirm this. Rodents (I dont remember if they used rats or guinea pigs) who are brought up in a large cage with multiple animals in them that have exercise equipment and artificial environments that they can run around and play in have better problem solving skills and more neural pathways (they dissected their brains when they died) compared to animals that lived solitary lives in small cages with little exercise equipment.
Anyhow, there is a LOT of institutional racism that goes on in the united states. A disproportionate amount of blacks and hispanics are in jail on drug related charges compared to the number of blacks/hispanics that actually commit those crimes. Schools in poorer income areas where there is a larger proportion of black/hispanic children are much lower quality (I am not talking about budget, but the actual administration and teachers) than in rich white suburbs,
This obviously isn’t an argument for government (or a political party), it is an argument for equality of oppurtunity. It might be that 100 years from now “blacks” will have an average IQ of ~100, but maybe “whites” will have progressed to have an IQ of ~130, given that “blacks” lag behind in wealth and capital per worker. I do not see any reason to be concerned about inequality of outcome so long as we understand why it happens and that we are sure that it is not deliberate.
Do you have any sources? This is similar to what I have always suspected myself.
My psychology text book (ofc from my left wing government run school).
I am not going to look through it right now to find the primary sources cause i have stuff to do if you are really interested I can get back to you later.
Name of textbook is Exploring Psychology 7th edition by David G Myers
Which part of the USA are you talking about here? As a wee young tyke, I heard many tales of my ancestor’s tribulations here - does the phrase “No dogs or Irishmen” ring any bells? In my area, we’ve got Arab-speaking, Somali, Central-American (the folks from Guatamela hate being called ‘Mexican’, and I don’t blame them), female, the age-challenged, the ability-challenged, the elderly (I forget the PC term for them) - pretty much anyone who isn’t a white, anglo-saxon, middle-aged male is identified, for reasons both social and legal, as a minority. As one of the 3 honky households on the block, I’m a numerical minority. As a guy who needss to learn a second language (Espanol) to do business anywhere within walking distance of my house, I know what it feels like to be outnumbered by folks who have a different culture.
This would explain the dramatic slump in economic growth since 1980, I suppose. Big government does put some brakes on it, but it’s continued, nevertheless. Social mobility? Over 50% of the actual millionaires today are self-made - they qualified as “poor” at some point of their lives.
OTOH, a child of African-American heritage in the schools who does passably well in class is punished by their peers for being an “oreo”, and is told by the social workers than they’re beaten before they try because of racism. This social malaise may account for their failure to thrive, and your blaming nonreasons for that failure is part of the problem. Affirmative Action is, indeed, institutionalized racism, and is causing problems - it’s not a cure.
The gang-ridden ghettos of 100 years ago didn’t have Big Government trying to help them, or raise them up - they got up anyway. Mayhaps it’s time for the Big Government problem-solving mechanism to leave the blacks alone, so they can have room in which to rise up.
Danno, proud to be descended from bog-trotters.
Sure mate, do it at your own leisure, there is no rush.
Not only that, but the anti-Catholic hysteria in US initialy reached such heights that during the American-Mexican war hundreds of Irishmen were driven to defect to the Mexican side and fight on the side of fellow Catholics as part of the newly formed Irish St. Patricks batallion rather than continue to endure the abuse. The batallion was perhaps the best fighting unit the Mexicans had as the Irish were well trained, in good fighting spirit and loathe to surrender. In the closing stages of the war however the US army captured around 200 members of this batallion and hung them all from trees alongside a road in a scene that must had been reminiscent of crucification of Spartacus revolters in Rome.
this makes no sense. IQ is a function of averages. average is ALWAYS 100. if you were testing only black people you would set the average score to 100, all deviations are calculated from 100.