…but you can live with no real consistent philosophy for anything, essentially going along with whatever seems appealing to you at the time, basically believing that violating the rights of others is fine as long as it’s a case that you don’t really care about, or it concerns something you don’t like anyway, or especially, if you personally benefit from it.
You can live claiming to not really believe in right or wrong, and to not have morals/ not take moral positions/ don’t think about morals, etc. (despite arbitrarily making moral judgements when it suits you), and essentially being indifferent toward minimizing conflict.
You can live believing that quite literally people should do whatever they want without any real order maintained by established law based in fundamental principles which minimize conflict.
Got it.
P.S.
Libertarianism is not just about being morally right, and that is not all libertarians care about. This is a mischaracterization from someone who obviously has no real understanding of what he’s talking about.
The troll claimed I was redefining words. I was merely proving him wrong (again).
Looks like “Someone’s jimmies are ruffled.”
Super philosophy. Just don’t expect any sympathy from me when someone who shares your worldview sees it to benefit them to take a Louisville Slugger to your cranium.
It strikes you odd that people might actually believe in morality and “right and wrong”, and that perhaps people simply doing whatever they feel like is not the best philosophy to live by?
I find it odd that you find that odd. But hey, what do you care, right? You’re a nihilist.
What utter nonsense. I don’t believe in a knowable absolute right and wrong. I believe there is a God but I cannot ask him, so that means I can only consult my brain. My brain generates value judgments all the time. So does everyone else’s so what? Because I can’t know for sure what’s right and what’s wrong, I try to come to an educated basis for making a moral judgment.
I find it very hard to assign moral values to actions without knowing more about them. I need information to come to moral conclusions, not just a base description of the act itself. I like to have data to consider.
Minimizing conflict is just one goal I have. It’s not always easy and it doesn’t always take priority for me. Conflicts are inevitable, they’re part of human nature.
I do not believe that people should literally do whatever they want, but I do think that they should at least consider what they want sometimes even if it means that someone else might not like it. I believe in giving priority to oneself in considerations where one is involved because everyone else is going to do the same thing anyways. If that leads to conflict sometimes then so be it. Conflict was going to happen somewhere along the line anyways.
You say I don’t understand you, well I don’t think you understand me. But that’s because we’re incomprehensible to one another. I literally cannot understand libertarians and you don’t seem to be able to understand anyone who isn’t exactly like you.
What good would your sympathy do for me anyways? You’re a nobody and you probably wouldn’t help me even if you did have sympathy for me because you’d probably rather post about it than actually do something. What did you do for the people who got handcuffed for two hours or the people who get “molested” by the TSA everyday? What about the people who’ve been indefinitely detained by the US government?
Your sympathy for those people has gotten them posts on an obscure website dedicated to a marginalist moral philosophy. I’m sure they’re thrilled. Excuse me if I don’t put much stock in you or your sympathy.
It strikes me as odd that people like you might take morality so seriously that they’d do anything to stick by that code, even if it meant something awful for themselves. Particularly people who probably don’t believe in God a heaven or a hell. It’s not that I’m telling people like you to just do whatever you feel like, I’m telling them to not get stuck on the philosophy to the point that it might impede their lives in some way. There’s no reason why context can’t matter sometimes.
Again, super philosophy. The rapist should just do his thing, giving himself priority over the little girl because everyone else (including her) is going to do the same thing anyway. If that leads to conflict sometimes then so be it. I mean, he might as well do what appeals to him.
Fires are going to happen somewhere along the line anyways. Might as well start some yourself, right?
I said you obviously didn’t understand the libertarian position. And you don’t. You literally just said “All people like John James seem to ever care about is being morally right”. That is a false statement. (But then again, you were lucky enough to include the subjective diction of “seem”, so you could certainly argue that it isn’t a false statement as technically (thanks to that one word) it’s an opinion.)
Oh no, I understand plenty of non-libertarians quite well. I just don’t really understand nihilists. At least not in the sense of why anyone would think that kind of philosophy would lead to less conflict or greater prosperity.
I am willing to violate the “rights” of others (whatever those may be) if I think it’s warranted
-bloomj31
Sounds good. Again, don’t come crying to anyone who believes in “right and wrong” when someone who shares your worldview finds it warranted to rearrange your face.
Rapists are going to rape and arsonists are going to set fire to things. There’s no way to stop that. Some people will always be given to such activities. I’m not going to advocate moralizing to them, I’m not going to advocate telling them why they shouldn’t do it. I am going to tell them that if they’re caught, I’ll be happy to see them made miserable for a very long time. Particularly the rapists.
I wouldn’t cry to anyone about right and wrong, that would be a waste of time. I’d either kill the guy myself, he’d kill me or I’d go to the cops afterwards and report the incident. Cops don’t ask moral questions. Those are my options.
Isn’t going to happen. You’re useless to me regardless.
No, everyone will be asking themselves that same thing. “What’s best for me here?” They will consider what others will do in response. I will do the same. I take consequences into consideration, so do other people. But if I think it’s a special circumstance warranting special action then I’ll do it. I imagine other people will do the same and we’ll figure it out afterwards. What matters to me personally is what I think is warranted, that doesn’t mean other people will feel the same way.
Conflicts are going to happen regardless, that’s out of my control. Prosperity is a nice goal but ultimately something I have no control over either. I focus on my own prosperity instead, that’s something I can influence more directly.
Our chasing them is as inevitable as their actions. Rape itself was probably not always seen as wrong in the ancestral environment but it’s come to be viewed in our society with great disdain. I don’t really know all the history behind it but suffice it to say, we don’t tolerate the act. We view it as we would any other social act widely viewed as antisocial. We don’t like their actions because our brains tell us we mustn’t and we chase them because our brains tell us we must chase them and catch them and hurt them and they rape people because their brains tell them they must. I care because my brain enables me to care. I can empathize with them and so I do. I myself would not like to be raped or set on fire and so I want to hurt anyone who would do such a thing. This is something my brain has evolved to be able to do over time.
Exactly! So you might as well molest a few children and burn a few buildings down. It’s gonna happen anyway right?
Super philosophy.
Why? They’re just living by your philosophy.
I didn’t say that. I said don’t go crying to people who believe in “right and wrong”…and evidently you won’t take that advice…
Hehe. You have no idea.
You really have no idea.
Yep. Guy says it’s best for him to have your facial features in different places. Normally he wouldn’t do it, but it’s a “special circumstance”. No big deal really. “Conflict was going to happen somewhere along the line anyways.” He might as well do whatever he feels is best for him, even if it “violates the ‘rights’ of others (whatever those may be)”.
Exactly. So why try to avoid them? Might as well give yourself priority and do whatever you feel like even if it violates the rights of others. Conflict was going to happen somewhere along the line anyways.
Exactly. Might as well rob the next person you see. I mean, sure it violates their rights, but you’re focused on your own prosperity, and you gotta give yourself priority. “If that leads to conflict sometimes then so be it. Conflict was going to happen somewhere along the line anyways”…right?
I gotta tell ya, this philosophy is looking more and more appealing by the post.
Doesn’t interest me. I’m not inclined to such acts.
Just because they’re applying a certain part of my philosophy doesn’t mean I have to agree with what they’ve done as a result. I’m not required to be consistent like you are.
Uh…ok. I can go crying to anyone I want to. Whether they believe in right and wrong is irrelevant though. What matters is that they might be able to help me. You couldn’t help me. Who have you helped?
Cool. Let him try. Maybe he’ll succeed maybe I’ll kill him we shall see.
Life doesn’t work that way. Other people have values too, not just me. I don’t randomly seek conflict it’s not in my interest or in my nature.
It’s not that easy, they’ll probably try to stop me and even if I do succeed there’s the possibility of jail and I really wouldn’t want to go to jail.
Look, let’s make this simple, why should I care about your sympathy? Why would I want someone like you on my side?
Give me a good reason and I’ll become an an-cap today. I’ll switch over to whatever philosophy I have to and I’ll advocate absolute freedom to whoever asks me. What’s your offer?
How do you know you wouldn’t like it? You should probably try it. After all, those things are going to happen anyways!
I didn’t say you were. I was mostly just curious what you’d say. Obviously a nihilist like you could see fit to decapitate someone who smiled at them, and have no issue going through with it. I’m not arguing you’d be inconsistent in your “literally do whatever you want” philosophy. I actually am not quite sure how that’s even possible. You feel like raping a girl. Fine. Someone else feels like cutting your balls off for it, fine. No big deal. He does what he feels like, you do what you feel like. S’all good.
Well, sure you can. It’s a figure of speech. I thought people understood that.
Ah but whether or not they would help you would most likely be largely dependent upon their belief in “right and wrong”. See, if they were all like you, they’d ask “What’s best for me here?”…and see you’re a nobody who has nothing to offer them that would interest them in sticking their neck out and wasting their time listing to your whining and tracking down some guy who was evidently just doing what was best for him.
hehe. It’s usually annoying when people presume to talk as if they know who you are…but in this case, it’s actually kind of funny.
Easy for you to say, while praising cops who make it less likely someone would do such a thing precisely becaus they abide by a different philosophy than you.
Right, but you’re more important. Might as well give yourself priority and do whatever you feel like even if it violates the rights of others. Conflict was going to happen somewhere along the line anyways. Right?
It wouldn’t be random…it would be doing stuff that was going to happen somewhere along the line anyways.
Oh I see. So you’ll just have to make sure you don’t get caught. Because that’s all that matters.
Why not? I do what I think is in my interest. If I thought it were in my interest to be an an-cap I would be. So why would it be in my interest to be an an-cap?
Why is chasing them inevitable? I thought you’d just do whatever you wanted. You know. Or wait, that’s too consistent, and your philosophy of non-philosophy is supposed to protect against having to be consistent, as you mentioned earlier. But then, inevitability sounds an awful lot like consistency. so I guess you won’t chase them. The rapist doesn’t view it as wrong. He viewed it as all right at the time. So why care? It’s all relative. There’s not morality. Right? Why don’t you tolerate the act? Why does it matter whether someone is antisocial? Why would you care what your brain tells you? Does it have some right to tell you what to do? Why do you think their brains told them they must rape? Maybe their brain told them not to, but then they thought, why should I care what my brain thinks? Rape seems like a good idea right now. You care because your brain enables you to care, and they rape because their physical attributes allows them to rape. Caring is gonna happen and rape is gonna happen. So why do anything about it? Why care if someone would want to? How can your brain hurt anyone? Are you an x-man?
In all actuality I probably won’t personally chase them. But other people will. And I will support them in that endeavor. It’s inevitable that I do this because I have a tendency to show deference to authority. I don’t really understand it but it happens nonetheless. That’s good enough for me.
It is all relative and yet some people think it’s not. But that’s no more their choice than it is mi choice to see things as relative. My brain hasn’t been presented with enough evidence to conclude morals are objective. If it had then I would’ve come to a different conclusion and I’d probably profess to a belief in objective morals. And it’s not that I don’t have moral feelings, it’s that I can’t understand how they could possibly contain some sort of objective truth.
Because I just don’t. Can’t really explain it. Just feels wrong. Not sure why. Really has nothing to do with my rational mind. But I still don’t know if rape really is objectively wrong. My brain tells me what to think and do and that’s what I do and think. I can’t ignore my brain because I am my brain and my brain is me.
It doesn’t just have the right, it’s literally the source of action. Without a brain man cannot act. I don’t really know why their brains told them to rape but it’s evident that they did. It’s impossible for people to not care what their brain thinks, the thing they perceive as “them” is also a manifestation of their brain. Mind and body are not separate entities.
Because that’s just what happens. That’s the outcome our brains choose. It doesn’t require an objective moral justification. It’s probably an evolved psychological mechanism that increased the genetic survival of the entities that held those particular genes in our ancestral environment combined with the cultural belief that rape is wrong. Why is rape always wrong? I have no idea. But I’ve been told my whole life that it is. So they rape, we chase them. Simple as that.
