American middle class shrinking.

Do you think this is true, what are the reasons and is this good or bad?

Source: http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/the-u.s.-middle-class-is-being-wiped-out-here's-the-stats-to-prove-it-520657.html?tickers=^DJI,^GSPC,SPY,MCD,WMT,XRT,DIA

Well we’re in a depression :P. The real question is whether the middle class is shrinking in the long term, not just during the bad times.

Its not a zero sum game guys…

So maybe they’re sooo rich that they don’t need to save? Or maybe they’re depending on social security? Or maybe 36% of americans are younger than 30? Or maybe this is no bloody change from years past?

Well, it is a depression.

“Household costs”? You’re saying there’s a shortage of affordable housing? Well that is what was inflated anyway..

I don’t have a name for this fallacy yet, but its someting like the nominal purchasing power fallacy. To be middle class you need maybe a house, clothing, food, car, okay. Bill gates does not consume 500 times more food than I do. The very best we can do in wealth redistro is to convert the things bill gates is spending his money on (expensive cars, re-investment) into capital to produce more stuff for the middle class. It should be obvious that you’re going to lose a lot of wealth if you convert a microprocessor fab into a farming facility…

I am richer in bill gates because I prefer my life over his.

And does everyone else own less? Or did inflation increase nominal wealth P:

OH is this new? Were there not poor people before/

From when to when… the level of dishonesty is staggering. Inflation you morons inflation…

AAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

In the whole, I think it’s largely true. Individual points can be argued, of course.

The middle class of today pales in comparison to the middle class of the 1950s. (Relatively speaking and subtracting technology gains) And it’s only going to get worse.

The United States is living way above its means and in the coming decade that standard of living will invariably be forced to shrink to sustainable levels. That shrinkage will most likely come via inflation. And when inflation hits, guess which class is going to suffer the most? The poor will still be poor and getting the gov’t handouts. The rich will suffer but won’t feel it in real terms. The middle class though is going to get hit hard in real terms.

I don’t see the situation abating until after the dollar collapses, and America labor again becomes somewhat competitve on a global basis. Of course, the standard of living when (if) that happens will be starting from a much lower point.

You see, it’s been very easy for successive governments over the past 40 years to promise the people prosperity… when the money has come from the cumulative income of the next three generations.

Could you please elaborate on how this is done?

The next three generations are not yet born. Thus, they have no money. Somebody living owns whatever wealth there is. So how did the govt give us the wealth of the next 3 generations?

I truly have no clue what you mean.

Yes, all wealth is currently owned by living people, but the liability/asset portion of that wealth is the key to the unborn (next 3 generations.)

Think about it this way: Let’s say you borrow $1 million dollars today from a neighbor (who just coincidentally is an Asian.) You get a 100 year repayment plan since there is no way for you to pay it back in your lifetime. (And for hypothetical sake, the law forces a person’s unpaid debt to pass along to their children and then children’s children like a government.) Anyways, you consume the million today and live large then start the slow process of repayment.

See the wealth is always owned by the living, but you decided to consume today and force your children (next generations) to eventually underconsume and pay it back. While the Asian family decided to delay consumption of its wealth today and instead allow their children to enjoy better lives later.

(Of course, the Asian family didn’t fully take into account your sneaky grandson Benny, who already is scheming a way out of debt.)

It’s called debt. When the government does it en-masse it becomes trans-generational.

Only the top 5 percent of U.S. households have earned enough additional income to match the rise in housing costs since 1975.

Well of course! The standard of living is going up too! If you want to live like people did in 1975, you could do it on minimum wage. Despite what the media says; “the war on the middle class”, is bunk.

What is middle class n e way? I agree when Mises stated that the standard of living is constantly increasing in a capitalist system. To say there is a “poor” in America is rediculuos. Most so called poor people I know have video game systems, air conditionaires, internet access, cell phones etc. Solomon in all his glory didn’t have cool stuff such as this. I also agree with sieben that there really isn’t enough info from this article to make any conclusions.

I would say the system is heading over a cliff due to the inflationary policies from the fed and the overt regulations by the government, but over all, the standard of living is still on the rise over all.

The middle class is not a very accurate description but it think it is intended to describe those from whom wealth is transferred in the transfer of wealth and power from society to government - the substitution fo coercion for cooperation.

Is not the description ‘middle class’ a collectivist substitute for the word ‘society’?

Perhaps the question ought more properly be asked: Is society shrinking? That depends upon one’s description and criteria for ranking the ‘size’ of society. I think that is how ‘middle class’ is intended to be used but it’s hard to decide because that decision requires a value judgement.

Society in the collectivist sense is a noun - an amorphous group of individuals assigned subjective and arbitrary traits. This makes the collectivist illusion of ‘middle class’ possible.

The word society is more correctly understood as an action word, a verb or adverb - cooperation among individuals.

When there is ccoperation among individuals ‘classes’ are not quantitative but rather qualitative - a manifestation of the degree to which one successfully cooperates with others. Classes are not rankings or status separating individuals within society (noun); classes are more correctly understood as an adverb describing the means through which individuals modify the word depicting action - the verb ‘society’.

In other (society) words - ‘employers’ are not a class of individuals like in the sense of a noun, rather a modification of the action ‘employ’. ‘Employers’ is the transitive of theverb ‘employ’, modifying action by cooperatively coordinating the action: employment.

Such an understanding acknowledges that in describing action, ends are irrelevant and unnecessary. Assigning or presuming ends in the description of action is an ethical judgement which may or may not be true. Making judgements about ‘employers’, using the word as a collective noun - the collectivist sense, could mean any number of things depending on the value one places on employment. So the use of the word ‘employers’ in the collectivist sense is no longer simply an accurate description of action, it becomes a value judgement. This leads to misunderstanding and confusion.

Use and abuse of the terms ‘middle class’ causes misunderstanding and confusion because coercion is conflated as society. A healthy or growing middle class could possibly exhibit division among individuals rather than cooperation - that somehow those to whom a classification is assigned ‘middle’ are gaining health or growth at the expense of others who have a different classification. This neglects that society is cooperation; mutual benefit. It presumes that coersion is the norm; a judgment which is irrelevant and unnecessary to the description of action.

How does this apply to the OP? “American” and “middle class” confuse society (cooperation) with government (coercion) by presuming value judgements about the use of those terms.

Understanding the extent to which cooperation benefits all individuals and coercion only benefits some individuals would be more correct knowledge than judgement calls about arbitrary classifications like ‘America’ or ‘middle class’.

“The reality is that no matter how smart, how strong, how educated or how hard working American workers are, they just cannot compete with people who are desperate to put in 10 to 12 hour days at less than a dollar an hour on the other side of the world.”

The Americans also cannot compete with robots that do work for free. Abolish all robots!!!

And most of the commentary in original post is a zero-sum fallacy. And the inequality increases are largely driven by statism/intervention into marketplace.

I only recently found out the answer to this one.

Let me see if I have it right:

First of all, in the 80’s, the USA made the best stuff, sold it the cheapest, and everyone was buying it all over the world, AT THE SAME TIME THE USA WAS PAYING THE WORLD’S HIGHEST WAGES!

How do we explain that?

Let the maestro do the talking. Here’s Rothbard on the subject.

His answer begins “What the protectionists don t bother to explain is why U.S. wage rates are so much higher than Taiwan. They are not imposed by Providence. Wage rates are high in the U.S. because…” Well, take it from there.

[Also, how do we explain that China buys more cars than anywhere else, and people pay for them in cash? At a dollar an hour, that’s no simple thing.]

Hard Rain:“It’s called debt. When the government does it en-masse it becomes trans-generational.”

Just a thought: Couldn’t that debt be eradicated by government fiat and the production capacity would be there?