I’ve read some WSJ and saw the footage but often wonder if N. Korea is portrayed right?
You can not question that. South is the good guys and North is the bad guys. That’s how media tells us.
Yes, I’m sure that those North Korean ships were just minding their own business when that island jumped out in front of them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ6E3cShcVU
The blindness of U.S. foreign policy will never cease to amaze me. Iraq’s WMD capability was doubtful at best, and we went in full force. The DRK announces their intent to gain and use nukes regularly, and our response has been to appease and bribe them, in hopes they’ll play nice in the future. Even China struggles to keep this favorite attack dog of theirs on its leash-- once they stop laughing at us, of course.
The North Koreans live inside Orwell’s worst nightmare. I know this seems hawkish even for me, but the best thing we could do for both them and for our allies would be to put the DRK out of its misery. It doesn’t even have to be expensive. If both the U.S. and China agree to stay out of the conflict, and leave all borders as they presently exist once it’s over, the war should come to a quick end. The world breathes a huge sigh of relief, and China has a nice stretch of barren wasteland to “protect” it from South Korea. South Korea has three times the population of the North, and at least thirty times the economy. The issue could be resolved without even breaking a sweat, or costing one American life-- and the Republic of Korea would be happy to do the job (and yes, I have spoken with members of the Korean military).
This, naturally, is another pipe dream. World leaders prefer the continuous, controlled conflict that they call “peace” to actually finishing what they start, which would in the long run save both money and lives.
Well, the correct portrayal is this: Mafia A attacked Mafia B. So, if N. Korea is portrayed as a criminals attacking competitors, it is accurate. Otherwise, it is inaccurate.
Well, South Korea is wealthy because of free markets and free institutions. The only way Communists can acquire wealth (and they do so badly, I might add) is by stealing it and enslaving their victims. So yes, I would have to say that the North Koreans are, in fact, criminals.
You can not question that. South is the good guys and North is the bad guys. That’s how media tells us.
“The state is immoral” aside, I rather live in a quasi-capitalist society (South Korea) than a oppressive, dictatorial society (North Korea), and any internal pressure that North Korea may be facing (internal pressure that in some ways drives it foreign policy with South Korea) is a good thing.
In any case, I’m not sure if the story is the same, but during the last political skirmish between North and South Korea (the sinking of that South Korean warship) I had started researching North Korean politics and society. I even bought Barbara Demick’s Nothing to Envy (which I never read). I didn’t do enough research to derive a conclusive thesis, but I did read that the North Korean regime had done a lot of damage to itself by allowing some of its citizenry to partake in what was relatively free trade (relative compared to the restrictions on trade they faced before). That is, they were allowed to conduct currency exchange, between North Korea and China at least, and there was actually some wealth accumulation and the beginning of a middle class (many of which were actually in the military).
Historically speaking, the middle class (the merchant class) has been the bane of oppressive regimes, because those who have wealth to lose will struggle to maintain it. Furthermore, sooner or later that wealth begins to become noticed by larger portions of the population, which will act as a further factor of instability. Some time about a year ago, I believe (I actually don’t remember exactly when), the regime closed trade and devalued the North Koerean won, robbing much of this growing middle class of its wealth. The result was social upheaval.
One of my thoughts during the last political skirmish was that it was a measure of reminding North Koreans of who the real enemy is (South Korea). Regimes like these, when in social trouble, tend to create other enemies to move focus off them (and, it’s not just regimes like North Korea [see: “A Culture of Fear”])—Argentina’s Falkland War is a relatively recent example.
If I am right, or even partly right, I think it’s a double edge sword. On the one hand, economic growth in North Korea is always a positive, as it destabilizes the regime (which is politically inflexible). On the other, if war breaks out, war is never good (although, I don’t think the war wouldn’t last very long—nevertheless, Seoul is in direct range of North Korean artillery, and I’m not sure in what state the North Korean artillery corps is in). But, these kind of dangerous situations are the product of the state.
I found this very interesting comparison about North Korea:
“I once had a deranged neighbor in the general vicinity out here in rural California. His pit bulls threatened us when we irrigated near the property line. His compound of various itinerant crashed trailers was an eyesore. His kids were near criminals. His message: “I am crazy with nothing left to lose; pay me obeisance or watch havoc ensue” (e.g., your good life will not be too good if you screw with me and my perennially bad life)".
(Taken from here: http://pajamasmedia.com/victordavishanson/reflections-on-an-ailing-society/?singlepage=true)
North Korea is at the recieving end of a huge “humanitarian” effort nobody really wants to advertise: nor the US, ROK and Japan (because they would be laughed out of the room for clamoring about “fighting terror” and then bribing a nuclear weapons toting madman), nor DPRK (because their juche philosophy says they are so self reliant), nor Russia and China (because they are sponsoring said madman). And technically speaking Kim Jong-Il doesn’t need to fire a single shot at the South to cripple it: all he has to do is open the checkpoints and allow millions of starving men, women and children to pour south. Seoul is just 42 km from the DMZ, near enough to be flooded with refugees. ROK citizens are rightly terrified at the idea of having to shoulder the costs of “reconstructing” the impoverished North.
Also DPRK is in the middle of big internal troubles: floods seriously damaged the rice harvest, the security apparatus is being “consolidated” (meaning lots of once influential generals and colonels are now little more than enbittered retirees) and Kim Jong-Il’s heir apparent, his youngest son Kim Jong-Un, has anything but a clear path to succession. One of Kim Jong-Un’s first acts as heir apparent was to join Chinese diplomats in a ceremony at the Hoechang military cemetary, where tens of thousands of Chinese soldiers are buried. Paying homages to his true masters already?
Whether the north was provoked or fired just for fun is immaterial. Carpe diem! This is the perfect moment to stop sending any foreign help to the north. There will be untold civilian suffering, perhaps even starving, but keeping the regime alive like this is madness. North Korea could well become a second Africa, with all this help coming in.
I’d also add that the south and Japan could stop being such wussies and pursue nuclear armament programs. To have the capability and fail to pursue one, especially in that region, would seem to me the apex of stupidity.
A war would be short , but quite brute. South Korea would suffer for abou 4 ort 5 days from NK artillery, but the much superior air force from the south would be able to easily bomb the artillery pieces.
From that point, the rest of the northen troops would be sitting ducks for the southern air force. Without little fuel and food, the war ends in less than 6 weeks.
If they were to reunite like the germans the whole thing would collapse.
A war would be short , but quite brute. South Korea would suffer for abou 4 ort 5 days from NK artillery, but the much superior air force from the south would be able to easily bomb the artillery pieces.
From that point, the rest of the northen troops would be sitting ducks for the southern air force. Without little fuel and food, the war ends in less than 6 weeks.
That was I thought too, but than someone brought to my attention the fact that the border has been very heavily bunkerized by the northerners, and artillery and supplies there are too well dug in to be scathed by bombing. I know those bunkers, my own country is full of them and trust me : there is no way in which you could take down a whole mountain range of those things. Short of starving them out, which could take weeks or months, I don’t see what else could be done. Seoul will be under fire from weeks. It will not be short, but grueling. Let’s hope they decide to do the sensible thing and sit it out.
Is it bad that I don’t care that much about this? I know this affects me very indrectly because the U.S. has a stake in this, but I have much more important things to worry about – things that are more under my control.
Well sounds like you have some guilt if you cared enough to question yourself.
It may be irrelevant to one’s immediate life, but I think its sad news all the same. but its war and death in any days
Well, South Korea is wealthy because of free markets and free institutions.
Pff, they’re poor and they have a constantly expanding and popping state-subsidized technology and industrial bubble. They’re wealthier than N. Korea, but they hardly have ‘free market’ institutions.
S. Korea started it with a staged attack. N. Korea shot back. To Hell with all of them.
Is it bad that I don’t care that much about this? I know this affects me very indrectly because the U.S. has a stake in this, but I have much more important things to worry about – things that are more under my control.
Yeah, this stuff is pretty irrelevant. N. and S. Korea are both run by lying gangsters.
The Maginot Line failed to save the French, as did “Fortress Europe” for the Germans. The first was out-flanked, the later smashed through. Machiavelli declared fortresses to be obsolete as a viable defense back in the 16th century, and has been constantly proven right. Governments, however, never learn, just as they never learn in terms of economics. There is always a general more clever, weapons that are more powerful, or military forces with greater will and courage that will overcome any fortification.
This being said, I am all for starving them into submission, if the ROK has the will to do it. They still have some sympathy for their brethren, and hope for reunification. Unfortunately, some foolishly speak of “economic equalization” before a reunion can take place. This is, of course, code for redistribution, and such an idea builds up the North at the South’s expense. It makes them a tougher opponent that the South Korea will have to fight anyway, while weakening the South’s economy just when they will need the most support for fighting a potentially bloody war.
The North will also insist on a seat at the table for their failed, Orwellian system if there is a reunification. This will naturally drain the economy further, cause unrest that will hurt the U.S., and most importantly, result in less freedom-- politically and economically-- for all Koreans.
This is why war is better in this case, provided there is the will to fight it and to finish it. If both China and the U.S. stay out of the conflict, it can come to a final conclusion. Their lost brethren must be treated decently, though not be given over to a welfare state as in Germany. Every North Korean government official, down to the last pencil-pushing parasite, must be executed in the most public and disgusting manner possible. Otherwise war will last years, when it could be over in days.
It would seem it falls to me to point to the elephant in the room.
North Korea is formally still at war with a superpower which has been imposing a sanctions regime on it for several decades, happens to have over one thousand military bases on foreign land including in South Korea, is presently droping bombs on some 4-5 countries and is considering bombing one more (Iran). To show weakness would be madness. You have to hand it to the North Koreans, considering what they have to work with (40 year old tanks and nuclear bombs that do not work), they are masters of deterrance. Their ‘spoiling for a fight’ facade is an integral part of it.
I say lets liberate North Korea!
Their socialist nightmare has endured long enough.
I may have posted this video a long time ago already, but you should all watch it if you get the chance. It will make you sick to your stomach how brainwashed these people are in North Korea.
Excellent video’s. Frightening really.
I say lets liberate North Korea!
Their socialist nightmare has endured long enough.
I hope you don’t mean by the use of the US military.
In case anyone missed it, Justin Raimondo wrote a great article on the recent debacle in the Koreas.