Arab-Israeli conflict

Miscellaneous General
1

As this is on the news a lot, I am wondering, do you think this conflict was heightened by the action of the state, or is it just plain old hatred? If we hypothetically took away the coercive state today, what do you think would happen to the conflict?

How do you explain Israel’s apparent economic prosperity?

P.S. Sorry about my economic fallacy rehashing, but I actually heard this in an argument. If we increase the minimum wage, cerebus perebus, companies will not fire workers. Instead, since they are paying more to their workers, they will instead increase the price of their product to cover the costs.

And why do I keep hearing “love it or leave it” arguments? I thought they were disproved at this website aeons ago. Heck, I heard this thousands of times.

2

I’ll take the first swing. First of all, let’s assume that there was no State in the area. At the time of Israeli immigration to Palestine they would have either had to find mutually agreeable terms with the Palestinians to sell their property or prove that the Palestinians had in fact stolen that land (pretty hard). So either there wouldn’t be an “Israeli” people or they would have come to terms with the Palestinians. No States, no problem. In a way moving Israelis in to Palestine was done by the British State with no consent from property owners. If they had bought the Palestinians’ land this would have created a shared free economy. Would they hate each other if they had come to mutually agreeable terms and had built a shared economy, which would have been imperative without the State?

How much more prosperous would they be if they were cooperating with NOT fighting with the Palestinians.

Hmm. But minimum wage costs aren’t always the same. If NY raises its minimum wage and NJ does not NY company can either fire people and find some other way to do the work or get rid of all the jobs (there are no more elevator operators), or they can pass it on to the consumer. But if NY company passes it’s costs on, NJ company will outcompete NY company. So NY company must not pass its costs on in order to keep it’s head above ground. The more regulations, be they of the labor kind or whatever, the higher the cost of doing business in an area. So perhaps NY company will move to Kentucky or even China. Perhaps if you’re arguing with a protectionist type you could argue: “The Minimum Wage: It’s Taking Your Jobs”.

Keep on hearing it in general or on this site? People in general are not aware of such arguments. I really can’t explain why someone familiar with Misesian ideas would say such a thing. Can you cite an example of someone on this site doing it? Sorry, but I haven’t noticed any, perhaps because of my short time on the forums.

3

I’ll take the second swing.

I’m more sympathetic to the Israelis–most of the time. I have yet to see a single videos clip of Israeli children throwing stones at Palestinian babies, or suicide bombing busses and cafes, or dancing around with AK-47’s and fake blood on their faces.

The main reason for the territorial dispute is because Israel never gave up the land it conquered in the six day war. The land (half of Jerusalem, and Gaza) was never given to them by international treaty, but taken by force. (Nobody mentions that when the U.N. voted to divide Palestine, the Arabs tried to take away Israel’s half.)

The Palestinians are counting every day that the Israelis hold Jerusalem as another day that a crime has been committed. Meanwhile, Western pundits and politicians call for a “two-state solution” to give everybody a piece of the pie.

In my opinion, the Palestinians don’t deserve a “two state solution”. Tell me, how would an independent Palestinian territory survive economically? They don’t produce agriculturally. They don’t control any oil reserves. They don’t manufacture clothing, or cars, or computers. And no capitalist in his right mind would invest in Palestinian territory, until it is completely clear that they don’t plan on provoking Israel anytime soon.

Do you know how the Palestinians eat? They are fed by Hamas, and Hezbollah. Oil billionaires in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere fund those two organizations, who then feed the Palestinians. The Palestinians, in turn, are told to fight for Hamas and Hezbollah. Meanwhile, the young are told that the Jews are “the sons of apes and pigs” and conditioned from birth to be a martyr so they can get to heaven and get all those virgins. If you want to see a warfare-welfare state gone mad, just take a look at the Palestinians.

Some neocons think that the Arabs kill because of Islam. Islam and violence is not a cause-and-effect relationship. Some Muslims are actually Israeli citizens! They go to work every day, vote, live peaceably with their neighbors, and, in the Galilee village of A-Taibeh, actually painted their mosque the color of the Israeli flag for Israel’s 60th anniversary of independence.

Unfortunately, such displays of solidarity are uncommon, as the headlines show. No amount of U.S. interference is going to change the situation. No amount of U.N. peacekeepers, foreign aid, and smart bombs. There will be peace only when the blood money stops flowing, and when the propaganda stops flowing.

4

Both the Israeis and the Palestinians ought to forget about the crisis, stop believing that it truly matters whether they live in Israel or Palestine and start caring about the more pressing matters of their existence (i.e. production, and their own personal affairs). Nationalism is quite the curse.

5

Good answer. Pithy, eloquent, admirable.

Make money, not war!

6

The British tried to keep European Jews out of Palestine and had to contend with a terrorist campaign directed against them by the Jews. That’s why the British left.

“The Turks conquered it just before the Crusades. Then the Franks took it from the Turks, then the Turks took it from the Franks, then the British took it from the Turks, then the Jews took it from the British.” … Bernard Lewis.

7

There are plenty of documentaries regarding the Palestinian situation which shows Israeli settlers or soldiers beating down Palestinians, firing at their homes, and worse. But these things are almost never reported on everyday news outlets- I had a great uncle who’s home was going to be bulldozed by the Israeli’s- he refused to leave and so they shot him in the face in front of his family. I never understood why people severely denounce suicide bombing of buses/cafes, but completely ignore Israeli airstrikes that flatten homes and completely mutiliate the bodies inside which include palestinian babies. Its as if people think “As long as the state commits murder its ok”. As if for some reason dropping high powered explosives on top of people’s heads is a humane way to commit slaughter over suicide bombing. The death toll between both sides shows right away who’s behind the slaughter and who is being slaughtered.

I’m quite sure that bulldozing palestinian homes, kicking them off their farms, nonsense checkpoints that turn a 5 minute trip into 10 hours, as well as creating an entire wall around Gaza would make it damn hard to produce anything. It seems like you’re implying that its Palestinians that always provoke Israel- while the Israeli’s were just peacefully sitting around wanting no harm.

Gaza is pretty much a large prison. Just like how the economy in a prison is severely limited and prisoners rely on aid from their jailors and people on the outside- same thing happens there.

Agree completely there- US and other foreign intereference is what makes the situation worse.