Aristotle on FDR

[Justin_D]

This was for my elective American Govt. Class. I figured it would be interesting to see what you guys all thought.

Topic- Aristotle defines democracy as regime in which “the many” (rather than the “few” or one person alone) hold political power, and in which the use that political power to benefit the poor (rather than benefiting everyone) The founders of the US did not describe their new country as a democracy. FDR did describe his new deal policies as a “quest” for Democracy. Do You thinkRoosevelt was right? Did the New Deal make the US more democratic (in Aristotles sense) than before?

[Snowflake]

Roderick T Long is one of the leading austrian/aristotelian thinkers. He is an anarchist and articulates himself very well. You might find his writings useful in this matter.

@Justin D

FDR did describe his new deal policies as a “quest” for Democracy. Do You thinkRoosevelt was right? Did the New Deal make the US more democratic (in Aristotles sense) than before?

Well… if the “many” ever had any power in america it was not during roosevelt. Though roosevelt did have a policy of showering his voters in wealth extracted from his opponents, though his policies did not lead to a recovery and therefore did not benefit the poor. The list of grievences would go on and on…

Rothbard has a very well known very developed history of the great depression. Flynn wrote on FDR as well. If you don’t want to read a big book here a lot of articles on mises like this one articulating the same view. Robert P Murphy is usually pretty dope.

[Smiling_Dave]

@Justin D

This was for my elective American Govt. Class. I figured it would be interesting to see what you guys all thought.

Topic- Aristotle defines democracy as regime in which “the many” (rather than the “few” or one person alone) hold political power,

Do you feel empowered? Can you get anything done at all in the public sphere? Do you know anyone who can? I know of two types of people who have political power, politicians and those wealthy enough to bribe them. So although “more” have power perhaps than in say an absolute monarchy, it’s a big stretch to say “the many” have had any political power in the USA at any time. As for the fact that we can vote, do you know of any way to use your vote to get something important done?

and in which the use that political power to benefit the poor

The poor are constantly bi tching when Republicans get elected. I guess they feel they are not getting benefits from democracy then.

The more precise version of reality here, Roosevelt or no Roosevelt, is that those in power use that power to benefit whoever got them elected, or they think will get them re elected.

(rather than benefiting everyone)

I think we all agree that in the USA very very few laws, if any, benefit everyone.

The founders of the US did not describe their new country as a democracy. FDR did describe his new deal policies as a “quest” for Democracy.

Yeah FDR was a master of hypocrisy. Plenty of tapes and books here about that.

Do You think Roosevelt was right? Did the New Deal make the US more democratic (in Aristotles sense) than before?

Of course not. Plenty of tapes and books here about how he really screwed everyone over, including the overwhelming majority of the poor.

P.S. I see Snowflake linked to some material for your perusal.

[Justin_D]

Couldn’t you say that the “majority” was increased due to his policies of forcing rich people to become poorer? Although the majority lack the tyranny upon the rich (subjective on your version of tyranny)of what Aristotle would describe, but that happy majority were still powerless to small elite in elected office. Majority rule just props up an elite. I would put Aristotles view more in line with Anarcho-Communism. SO would FDRs quest lead to that? Id say no, but much closer but never to it.

[WisR]

@Justin D

Couldn’t you say that the “majority” was increased due to his policies of forcing rich people to become poorer? Although the majority lack the tyranny upon the rich (subjective on your version of tyranny)of what Aristotle would describe, but that happy majority were still powerless to small elite in elected office. Majority rule just props up an elite. I would put Aristotles view more in line with Anarcho-Communism. SO would FDRs quest lead to that? Id say no, but much closer but never to it.

Aristotle seems to be describing a direct democracy, not a representative democracy or a republic. In a real direct democracy, where everyone’s vote carried equal weight on every matter voted upon, the masses would exploit most minorities, and especially the rich.

[Justin_D]

Yes it appears to be the case. I always wondered why it always seems that the “majority” seem to want something fromsomeone else. Why cant the majority leave the minority alone. Could we say that was the scase more so before the New Deal or even pre 1900s ( especially w/o the income tax)