No, it’s reality. Are you denying that the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 exists? Seriously?
Forced? FORCED?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Look, money-as-debt crank: you’re in over your head.
Then tell me what your solution is since I’m in way over my head?
Speaking on behalf of Tomozope, “BAAWA, you still dodn’t get it, money IS debt, debt IS desth, government CAN save us, we’re ALL gonna die if we don’t do something fast, end the fed now or run for the hills while you still can. Sadly those hills are also owned by the banks due to foreclosures.”
Eliminate the central bank and fiat currency. Return to a commodity-backed-and-based money system, e.g. gold/silver. Repeal the legal tender laws.
Oh no, your grandmother stole other people’s debt money because she didn’t produce enough wealth money.
Tomozope I’d like to lend you some money.
[6]
BUHAHAHAHAHA!
Units of exchange are discovered on the market on their own.
And the only way those units go into the market and circulate is when somebody (business, person, government, ect…) gets an extention of credit by a private commercial bank.
Bannanas do not circulate as money, and it’s true bananas are not just out there. They are grown, harvested and sold. In order for there to be any money to purchase those bananas somebody, somewhere in the system had to go into debt to a private commercial bank in order for that money to exsist. Unless you believe that there is money out there without debt, in that case next statements you’ll probably agree with. I have some bananas in my house, and I do not have a banana tree, therefor, that proves that all bananas are not grown on trees. This is exactly why I didn’t go deer hunting this year because i decided to purchase all my meat from the grocery store where no animals where harmed for that meat. The grocery store does not have any animals therefor it proves that not all meat comes from animals.
Can you please tell me something more rediculous about our monetary system? “discovered on their own” Maybe the better question is, who told you that lie?
The people are free to purchase as many bananas as they wish just so long as there is bananas to purchase and money to pay for them with.
How much are you willing to loan me? What does this money consist of?
I have a handle on how money works. Thank you for the source though.
I’m all for elminating the central bank and it needs to be done, but before we do that we have to figure out how all money is going to be put into circulation. There is a lot of really good things about the FED. This video might help to point out a few.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lgN4-EW_zs
Do you realize that the fiat currency in our system does not affect the money supply at all? The money supply does not increase nor decrease with an increase or decrease in the fiat component. We do not have a fiat money system. We have a credit money system with a fiat component.
If you want to return gold/silver how much gold and silver is it going to take? Where is it going to come from? How is it going to be put into circulation?
With an outstanding debt of 57 trillion dollars even if you put 57 trillion dollars of gold/silver into circulation to pay off the debt wouldn’t the banks then own all the gold and silver? Now if they loaned it back to us at interest wouldn’t we be in the exact same mess we are in right now? An unpayable debt owed to the banking system?
Repeal all legal tender laws? Do you really want a cashless society?
Do you realize what you have just stated in this sentence? Currency is not apart of the money supply?
Do you know what the MZM is?
No we don’t, central planner. We didn’t need one before, so why need one now. And will you READ THE ANSWERS THAT PEOPLE HAVE GIVEN YOU OVER AND OVER AND OVER TO YOUR QUESTIONS?
Non sequitur.
I never said it wasn’t part of the money supply, what I said is that the fiat currency doesn’t increase nor decrease our money supply at all. The fiat currency is not the true money in our system. The true money is bank credit. “the actual creation of money ALWAYS involves the extention of credit by a private commericial bank” - Russel L. Munk U.S. Treasury.
http://www.theantechamber.net/VkDocuments/DeptOfTreas/DeptOfTreasPage1.html
In other words, there simply is no money until somebody goes to a bank and gets an extention of credit.
The MZM is “money with zero maturity”.
MZM: Money with zero maturity. This measure equals M2 plus all money market funds, minus time deposits. It measures the supply of financial assets redeemable at par on demand.
All of that MZM can only exsist though if somebody, somewhere in the system has gone into debt to a private commericial bank. It’s all bank credit (the true money in our system).
Because in the past people were able to monetize their production as a wealth to the people, which currently cannot be done.
I want to hear your answer in detail. Tell me exactly what good repealing all legal tender laws would do?
It does not follow that in the absence of legal tender laws “Cash” would not exist. Do you know what Non Sequitur means?
There is a reason why I asked you what your definition of a “Good” economy is. Now I am goign to explain to why it is relevant.
A “Good” economy is one where individual consumer demands are met and individual ends are realized. An economy that does not deliver goods that people actually want is not an economy but a failure. We are not wealthier by producing things we do not want.
Money itself is a good. It’s a market good just like anything else. It is a tangible object subject to the laws of scarcity. As such it applies economization, or economics. In the absence of Legal Tender laws we do not know what Unit of exchange people would resort to. It is not our place to dictate such measures as to what is the best unit of exchange, we can no more dictate what individuals desire. Such speculations are the job of entrepreneurs.
Legal Tender laws forces man to assume a specific unit exchange against his free will. It forces him to use a unit of exchange he would not have voluntarily chosen to use. It prevents him from using his free will in deciding such factors.
So in the first place it can be said that if we are forcing people to use a form of tender they would not voluntarily use than logically we can assume that such tender is not something that would have been realized on its own. In other words it is a form of currency no one wants, we are only compelled to use it. The most efficient most desired unit of exchange is realized on the market through normal economic means and economic competition.
Indeed money needs to compete on the free market just as anything else. Forcing people to use legal tender laws contradicts the underlying goal of economics. That is, to meet the demands of the individual.
In the absence of legal tender laws we can only speculate what would be realized. History and even modern evidence of the value of commodities leads us to believe that such tender would likely be silver and gold in combination. Though I am only speculating that fact. It could be cigarette’s, it could be stones, it could be anything.
Pretending to know what the most efficient unit of exchange is making an argument that you can read the minds of every man and women on earth simultaneously. It reveals your belief in mathematical mysticism and underlines you as a monetary crank. You are no different than the ancient alchemist or warlock and will be taken no more seriously here.
Our money supply is currency. Money is currency.
And what form does bank credit take? Do you walk into McDonald’s and say ‘Bank X loaned me some credit, so I will pay with that’? No you had them pieces of fiat currency.
If that were true then explain the hypothetical situation of gold as a medium of exchange. To own gold I must go into debt? That is nonsense.
Money exists regardless of whether it is bank formulated or commodity formulated. I have a economic case study for you. It involves POW soldiers in WWII camps that utilized cigarettes as money to exchange for goods within the camp. Now according to you, all of these prisoners would have been in debt which would make absolutely no sense.
You guys have a lot of patience with absolute morons.
I’ve lost mine. I really do give up. It’s the same as talking to a brick wall. I think the most frustrating thing about it is this guy refuses to actually do any research. He would rather be watching you tube to get his education than read a real publication, like a book.
I’m just checking in now and again to see what he has to say about my grandma.