This thread sponsored by:
So you would choose to continue doing business with the debt dealing banksters while others prospered via the use of other tools which make barter simpler and enhance fair trade?
I would choose to have a debt free medium of exchange. A wealth money medium of exchange.
If only I had some wealth money, I wouldn’t need commodities and services.
No my friend, it is you who is backwards. The order of operations comes before solving calculus. In the same way interest comes after money, not before. More importantly however “economics” and an understanding of it comes before understanding monetary theory.
Your entire premise and understanding of monetary theory is nothing more then a student doing calculus problems with the order of operations backwards.
You have no authoritative position on this subject as you have no economic understanding. Until you understand economics your arguments on money are worthless.
AKA general rise in prices. Wages are a part of the ‘prices’ apparatus.
With this statement, above all others, you have demonstrated you have no idea what money is. Money is a medium of exchange, nothing else. If one trades goods or services for coins (government approved or not) those coins are money. Coins do not need to be blessed by the government to become money; they simply need to be accepted as money by someone. That is, they need to be spent.
so 2500 years ago. Aristotle would agree with you.
We had something pretty close. And I’m not going to respond to your conspiracy junk except to note that it’s conspiracy junk.
-
Commodity money. This is a medium of exchange, the units of which are fixed amounts, fixed either by law or custom, of an actual commodity that has value other than as a medium of exchange. Most people falsely believe commodity money only means gold or silver money.
-
Fiduciary money. Fiduciary money is a medium of exchange composed of some intrinsically less valuable substance, usually paper or (cotton/linen) which the issuers promise to redeem in commodity money on demand. The fiduciary money is used for exchanges. Fiduciary money is based on trust, on the publics confidence that the issuer can be trusted to honor its promise to pay.
-
Fiat money. Fiat money is anthing that is declared money by law. In the United States all money is fiat money, including all coins and currency issued by the United States Government and including Federal Reserve Notes which are not issued by the government.
-
Debt money. Debt money is money that is created as a liability. A debt based monetary system is an economic system where money is created as a liability to the party issuing the money, or as a debt to the pary receiving the money, or as a debt to both the issuing party and the receiving party. This form of money is called debt-based or debt money because someone must have a debt for the money to exsist before the money can move into circulation.
-
Wealth money. Wealth money is money that is created and and spent or exchanged into circulation and is not a debt, liability or an obligation to either the user or the issuer. The 1792 coinage act is a good example of wealth money and under that law anyone who had some gold or silver, or who dug some gold or silver bullion our of the earth could take it to the United States Mint and have it turned into money free of charge. The biggest problem with gold and/or silver is that there simpley isn’t enough of it on the earth to have it work as a general meduim of exchange.
Here is what the dictionary says about metal coinage “gold, silver, or other metal in pieces of convenient form stamped by public authority and issued as a medium of exchange and measure of value.” That value being the number stamped on the coinage.
We use credit as our medium of exchange but it clearly is not money. The banks have tricked the people into believing that anything can be money but that simply isn’t true. Only final payment can be true money, such as the principles of gold and silver under the 1792 free coinage act.
Money is something that is used to pay debts. Can you borrow enough from bob to pay bill and expect to get out of debt? It doesn’t work, hence our failing economy.
The dictionary doesn’t say government, it just says public authority, which is accurate because if we go back to the days of the goldsmiths he was the public authority on minting coins. It was their job to weight, asset, and stamp the metal into coinage.
That is called barter. I could clean my neighbors barn for 1000 pounds of horse manure, and he pays me in the manure, does that mean that horse manure is now money? It got traded right?
I’ve got 1000 pounds of horse manure and because it was traded to me it must be money right?
The fact is that during the height of the gold rush just the interest on the government debt alone was twice that of all the gold coming into circulation. Nevermind all the private and business debts. The reality is the amount of credit in the system was at least (grew exponentially from there) 5 times the amount of gold AND silver with the silver vastly our numbering the gold. That is why in the late 1800’s the banks had silver de-monetized to create a money crisis (switch people from wealth money and force them onto debt money). We’ve never been at all close to a gold standard at all.
And if the wages and raw materials rose at the same rate of the finished products why would we care what the prices are?
I make 10 bucks an hour, and a chair costs 20. Two hours of wages.
I make 20 bucks an hour and a chair costs 40. Two hours of wages.
Now if I make 10 bucks an hour and the chair costs 40, it’s 4 hours of wages. Clearly there wasn’t a “general rise in prices”. There was only a rise on the retail product.
and if something that never happens happens why should we care about X.
well, you should care about it because the thing that would , by happening, exempt you from caring about it, won’t be happening.
Cite, please. And do please read A History of Money and Banking In The United States.
It’s somewhere around 3/4ths the way the back. This book was written in 1896. The Comming Battle. http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/comingbattle/cbtabcon.htm
Manure is used as money in some remote parts of the world, it is a good source of energy for fire hearths and insulation for shelters. Sticks of wood were used as money in England hundreds of years ago.
Do you believe everything that you read?
Which page?
The it’s being used as a commodity.
Yes Tally sticks and they were monetized by the king right? It just wasn’t some old stick laying around in the forest.
If it is also being used as a medium of exchange, it’s money. For thousands of years, gold has been both a commodity (jewelry, etc) and money.
He never said it was being used to facilitate trading. He said it was being used as money because they heated and insulated their homes with it. By that logic we use timber, tar, and cement as money because we use those to insulate/heat our homes.
Gold was used as money at one point in time yes, but it was never the dominate money in America. We don’t live in Africa nor use cow pies for money. We use numbers for money now. There never has been enough gold and/or silver to make a general meduim of exchange, if their had been the people would have never borrowed the receipts from the goldsmith and expanded the money supply that way unless there truely was a shortage of money.
You are saying that because of a shortage of gold and silver, people had to borrow receipts from goldsmiths and consequently expanded the money supply (let’s put aside the practicality of carrying goldsmith receipts instead of metal coins).
Under that statement, if I go to the bank today and ask for a loan, does this mean that we are short of medium of exchange?