A) You are factually incorrect.
We just witnessed this in Zimbabwe when locals switched back to commodities on their own.
You are again factually incorrect. There has always been enough, we have disproven your logic on this probably 10 times now.
There is never a need to expand or reduce a money supply.
Tom your still trying to solve calculus problems without the order of operations.
If you had the money why would you go to the bank and borrow it and pay interest on it?
Because you don’t have enough time. An entrepreneur sees a potential profitable opportunity and he wants to act; but, if he did not save enough money on his own, that is, he consumed too much, he will be unable to engage in that investment. This is why he goes and borrows money. Sure, he could save, but he may miss that opportunity. What exactly are you saying? All people should have enough money to engage in any economic activity at any time? This is pure shit, and no adult should get away with thinking like this; it’s inexcusable.
This is why I asked you, right from the beginning, what happens when the price of oranges rise? Would you say, “there needs to be an increase in the money supply, or else no one can buy those oranges.” The answer is, people can buy those oranges if they stop buying apples, or cut down on apple consumption (or anything else); likewise, if people borrow too much, they must stop consuming and pay back their creditors (paying pack the time they bought). Interest is a real economic phenomena.
I don’t know why I’m still trying to help you. You’re the epitome of hopeless. God help us.
Tom, you have revealed that you do not know what the purpose of a loan is. It has nothing to do with lack of money. It is a TEMPORAL issue.
Again you prove to us that you are trying to so solve calculus problems without understanding the order of operations first.
Learn Economics
Perhaps he’s not an adult?
ditto
AMEN
Pssst.. That wasn’t me.
Do you understand that there is NO MONEY in circulation unless someone borrows it from the bank where they CREATE the money when they make the loan?
Do you understand that prices are set between two people at any given point in time?
Do you also understand that there is no money until someone borrows it?
Do you also understand that in our current system paying down the debt destroys the money supply?
Do you also understand that the only way we can be prosperous under this system is by a lot of people going massively deeping in debt (new money).
How can anyone profit when they have to borrow all the money into exsistance?
And where is this money magically going to come from?
What would make the prices of these oranges magically rise? If you tell me more money in circulation can you explain logically why that statement would be true?
What I understand is you have absolutely no clue as to what your talking about. And the citation you provided earlier was a website espousing economic fallacies. I do know that you havn’t read one book on the topic of money and credit. I do know that yuor entire education on the subject has been from youtube and back-alley websites like the one you posted above that are filled with conspiracy theory’s and other unsubstantiated garbage.
I do know that you continue to make sense of monetary theory despite being in the state of economic ignorance. I do know that you have no desire to learn about economics and that you willing continue to beleive fallacy’s. I do know that you continue to solve caclulus refusing to use a correct order of operations.
I do understand that you are a money crank and a zealot who admits to deliberately avoiding fundamental economic principles.
Have a good one!
I think Esuric has proven that he understands quiet a bit more than you.
This statement seems to be in conflict with the one above it. It is also fallacious. Money is a unit of exchange. If I choose to trade 2 xbox’s for 1 playstation I have used a gaming console as a unit of exchange. Did I need to borrow the Xbox before I traded it? How many times must we repeatedly reveal your fallacy’s to you.
What we understand, that you do not. Is not that “This System” needs to be replaced with “Another System” of equal functionality like you espouse. But that the system needs to be dismantled all together and that money is an economic good just as anything else on the market. It will be distributed just as milk is distributed magically every day at your local grocer.
How do people live in big homes, drive fast cars, have personal airplains, The last 100 years of serious economic growth seems to have serious issue with what your saying here. Its obvious your delusional at this point.
Look if you want to believe the sky is red by all means go for it. You believing the sky is red and repeating it over and over doesn’t make it any less blue. You have fooled yourself and you refuse to do research on the matter. Instead you just continue to watch silly youtube videos.
I have explained this to you 3 times now.
In a closed system if we have 10 people with 100 units of exchange everyone would receive 10 units of exchange. Prices would be based on thhat overall supply. In this system the value of an apple may be 0.10 units of an exchange.
If we have 50 people with 100 units of exchange everyone would have 2 units of exchange. Prices would be based on the overall supply of units of exchange. In contrast to the first system an apple may be 0.02 units of exchange.
The monetary value of a good is mearly a reflection of it’s worth. Therefore prices correlate with the quantity of money in supply.
By y our concept if we simply printed new money “REAL WEALTH” would fall out of the sky into existence. This isn’t true. If you create NEW money your still representing the same quantity of steel, raw materials or consumer goods. More money does NOT MEAN more STEEL.
You would have known this had you study just the basics of economics. Yet you still continue to refuse to do so and as much continue to make embarrassing elementary mistakes.
If I loan you 3 sandwhich’s today, in return you must pay me 4 sandwhich’s next month. Where do my 3 sandwhich’s come from? I certainly didn’t blink them into existence.
Only thing I can gather is that it includes the non-backed greenback fiat currency, the issuance of which and national banking laws during the War To Prevent Southern Independence created massive inflation. However, this has nothing to do with a gold standard.
Do you understand that such is not how things work in a full-reserve, commodity-based money system, e.g. gold standard?
Oh yeah I forgot, grandmothers are stealing all the debt money and we don’t have any wealth money. y=t+b/25^3fuuguXx(t+1)lf(K,L)ERROR!u+d/16($+@)!
Magic Beans. Sinister Magic Beans. The real question is how am I going to get that fourth sandwich, since we know I don’t own any magic beans?
Its obvious that only the banks have magic beans, or else where did they get the money to lend in the first place without being in debt, as we are told all money is debt based(except magic bean money).
Is this thread still going?
From the looks of it its where it was when I left off.
Idiots: IF I LEND U 10 DOLLARS U OWE ME 11 BUT U ONLY HAD 10 HAHA
Mises People: you can’t repay the loan with the loan money… which is why you supplement it with other income…
Idiots: IF I LENT U 10 DOLARS U OWE ME 11 BUT U ONLY HAD 10 HAHAHAHA
I know this will not really add to the quality of this already failing thread but:
HAHAH!
It is true, don’t feed me that partially true bs…
Section 16. (1913 Federal Reserve Act HR 7837)
Every Federal reserve bank shall maintain reserves in gold or lawful money of not less than thirty-five per centum against its deposits and reserves in gold of not less than forty per centum against its Federal reserve notes in actual circulation, and not offset by gold or lawful money deposited with the Federal reserve agent
You are incorrect about state banks, they could opt in:
Section 8
Any bank incorporated by special law of any State or of the United States or organized under the general laws of any State or of the United States and having an unimpaired capital sufficient to entitle it to become a national banking association under the provisions of the existing laws may. by the vote of the shareholders owning not less than fifty-one per centum of the capital stock of such bank or banking association, with the approval of the Comptroller of the Currency be converted into a national banking association, with any name approved by the Comptroller of the Currency
Again it’s not interest that is the problem. The problem is that anything can not be money without government persecuting or stealing it from you. Kind of like the circle analogy I made earlier in the thread.
Government obligation… full faith and credit… what is the difference? Either way the money is based on a government DEBT (and I am still waiting for the detractors to clearly articulate how money does not represent debt). It is peoples perception of government’s ability to pay an obligation that gives the federal reserve system value which is measured by treasury securities.
The collateral government has is not my private property. That is just pure bs. The collateral government has is the power to tax by all means necessary.
Sources:
A nice resource for the legislative history of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913:
PDF of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913:
http://www.llsdc.org/attachments/files/105/FRA-LH-PL63-43.pdf
How did all that money get put into circulation?
or people would have to go without because there isn’t enough money for everyone to purcahse oranges?
The author still won’t factor in (and always avoids) the cost of doing business. My suspiction is that he/she has never owned or ran any kind of business. The cost of doing business is interest and taxes.
How would that money be moved into circulation? If it’s spent in on permanant infrastructure, then yes new wealth would be created. If it’s loaned in the it’s a promise of future production that may or may not happen.
We are contantly mining more iron every day, now lets add some enchancements to that iron, make some steel, now spend brand new money to rebuild our infrastructure with that new steel. Any time in history whenever there is an increase of the money the production has always increased BUT we are doing it all as interest bearing loans now, further increasing the cost of doing business (what really destroys the purchasing power of the money).
I don’t think I would want to study basic economics because that last time I read one of those books it wasn’t until page 200 and something that they said banks create all the money as interest bearing loans. If all these businesses are producing so much and being so profitable, why are they collectively getting deeping in debt if they are all making a profit? Both cannot be true, and those economics books simply do not focus on the root cause of america’s financial problems. I think I can figure out how to get into debt up to my eyeballs on my own, what i want to figure out is how to have everyone get out of debt and still have a functioning medium of exchange that is based on the principles of gold/silver except lets use something where there is enough of it.