That is precisely what I wrote here:
My point being that the whole economy is based on loans and debts and being that this is one of it’s essential features, it cannot do much harm.
Indeed, given an evenly rotating economy, the only thing that matters would be interest and the loan/debt relationship.
I don’t know what the exact current figure is but I am aware of this video about a federal reserve balance sheet:
And here is a link to federal reserve data released every Thursday:
a lot of ‘i dont knows’ it seems
i was responding to an earlier statement about an insufficient quantity of gold needed to operate a vast complex economy that exists today.
as for the 250 million ounces claim…right...i dont know if that is all federal reserve controlled or managed according to congressional/us treasury dictate or if it just sits around and looks pretty. or why gold would even figure into any federal reserve activities - if the pumping mechanism that i read about is true…the gold would seem to have an almost nonexistent effect on money and credit inflation.
the link you posted mentioned, if true, states there are 800 billion or so of federal reserve assets. i dont have the financial background to understand that information.
in an earlier discussion with a poster named jimmy at mises forums i was told this
" So normally if the Fed increases the monetary base (not typically notes and coins but more commonly by increasing the total quantity of reserves in the system held on account with the Fed itself) by 100 billion you might expect an actual expansion of the overall money supply of maybe 1 trillion (in a very simple example)."
found here the actual procedure of creating money (alt thread)
if the federal reserve actually conjured up 800 billion or so to get commercial bank assets…maybe an $8 trillion or so money/credit supply would make sense. that is what i was told.
fakename wrote:
undoubtedly the use of math helps predict human action but it can only be imperfect. Human action cannot be predicted regularly due to changes in preferences and though preferences can be linked to quantities (caloric intake, etc.) it is not possible to extrapolate perfectly from even this relationship (with the rise of ascetes being a counterexample).
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Yes, agreed, my simple model is imperfect and I show no variables for the human interaction. Instead, my model quantifies (imperfectly) the expectations/requirements of human interaction.
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fakename wrote:
And from a purely theoretical view, this anti-interest theory proves far too much for it’s own good. If the problem of interest is that it grows to an extent where it can never be repaid, then why do people and businesses profit?
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The problem is a debt based monetary system - it’s a scam. How can we or the government, have debt to private bankers, when it is solely us that backs up the new money with our collateral and IOU?
Cheers,
Larry
Ok; we have heard enough of your ‘critiques’; your reasonable ones mixed up with you ridonculous ones.
what exactly is your positive program? what are you ‘for’ ?
There is no such thing as there not being enough gold or silver or anything. This argument comes from economic folly that every man/women and child needs X units of gold silver or platinum. But they cannot decide what X is or how much X is. They don’t understand that
A) If you have 10 X units of gold and 20 people. Then in general everyone has .5 X units of gold.
B) If you have 40 X units of gold and 20 people than everyone has 2 X units of gold.
The people in scenario A are just as wealthy as the people in Scenario B. Group B is not somehow 4 times wealthier than group A. They have just rationed off differently what is available.
If your incapable of understanding this you may as well not be posting on this forum as you only make yourself look foolish.
Surprisingly monetary cranks understand the concept of inflation but don’t understand that the quantity of gold available for a gold standard to operate isn’t relevant.
False. Math cannot predict human action. It can only help guess human action. The closest word you could get to predict is “Guestimate”. Beyond guestimation math will do nothing. It cannot tell the future.
FRB is a scam not because it’s “Debt based” as you called it. It’s a scam because it’s fraudulent and causes banks to lend irresponsibly and to handle depositors money irresponsibly behind depositors backs. If banks could just lend new money into existence they would never fail. Unfortunately for you and your argument banks do fail. See here
Any how I don’t want to dilute nirgaham’s question. If you could answer the following.
Filc wrote:
Your numbers are arbitrary.
Hello Flic,…Yes, my inputs are arbitrary. I’m sorry if I implied that they were fact. I was looking for the formulas and modeling that could help define where we are at, and what is coming our way. The variables may be argued but the mathematical logic is the bigger question. For example, We can calculate, with a high degree of certainty, how interest and principal debt will impact our future economy.
Filc wrote:
They use mathematical models to guess human action. They predict nothing as they are speculating. It’s a gamble and if their speculation is a good one than they may profit. No amount of mathematical prediction can predict or manipulate human action. Mathematical predictions couldn’t have saved the horse and buggy industry. Any one who believes it will save their industry is also in error.ack to my previous point. They think that human behavior can be modeled and predicted via math. It’s a huge fallacy.
So I’ll state it again. When your mathematical models can accurately predict human behavior come let me know. I’ll want to know which stocks to invest in since you will some how have an eye into the future.
We can go at this from a couple of ways. First, we have no idea how people will behave. But we can calculate the degree that their actions have impact on the economy. For example, how much debt will be dropped (in the form of taxes, inflation and general theft.
Larry
Would 200 pounds of gold be enough to run an economy?
How small of a gold/silver/anything of a coin are you proposing?
i posted this earlier…if true, the coinage issue doesnt seem to be a problem.
"The government claims to hold about 250 million oz of gold…"
the above was stated in a mises blog thread some time ago. i dont know if it is true or not. there may be as much gold in the hands of people as well - in other forms than coin or bullion.
i believe a dime weighs about 2.5 grams. the dime seems to me a usable practical coin. i am able to read it
250 million ounces of gold could yield about 3 billion 2.5 gram gold coins.
i gues they could be traded electronically..like a lot of things now. but there if you needed them.
Gold hasn’t had any relation debt, money, or anything else with money for over 70 years. Gold was de-monetized in 1933/34. You can’t trade gold electronically. It’s a physical substance that can only be traded via transportation. The banks like to push the whole digital gold thing, but its a lie. It’s like electronically trading a sandwhich, it just can’t be done with todays technology, and probably never will be able to be done.
More importantly though, even if you did monetize all that gold it still wouldn’t put a dent in the $57 trillion dollar interest bearing debt that is looming over our nation.
It sure would be, and whatever other additional units of exchange consumers desired to use. If gold was truly that limited it’s unlikely it would be a unit of exchange though if people wanted it they may decide to mint coins with .001% of gold and the rest silver of some other more common metal. Thanks for evading my question though. Your the one who believes we need a fixed amount.
My point is that it doesn’t matter how much physical quantity there is in existence. So long as the unit of exchange does not change drastically over a short period of time and cause a business cycle.
I can electronically transport just about everything else. I havn’t looked but I bet there is something made of gold on Amazon Fresh.
Doing something electronically is no different then calling someone on the phone or doing it yourself. The fact that a request is made electronically does not mean that some mysticism is involved.
it’s like saying 200 pounds of gold is enough to run an economy just so long as you suppliment it with as much of something else as needed.
It’s like saying 2 horses are enough for a 50 horse race just so long as we add 48 jackasses and call them horses.
Since you decided to ignore my post I’ll repost it.
"Gold hasn’t had any relation debt, money, or anything else with money for over 70 years. Gold was de-monetized in 1933/34. You can’t trade gold electronically. "
i think most people posting here know this. the topic has stryed somewhat.
i have done something called a wire transfer at a bank.
some minutes after it took place a person 2000 miles away claimed to have money and they didnt eat it - making it unsandwichable.
a claim for gold could be electronically transferred or sent like a title. it works for electrons and it probobly would work (for some) when exchanging goods for title to gold in vault.
you could use coins as much as you like.
I didn’t ignore your post. Look one posting up and read about the horse race.
There you have it folks.
FYI Tom, your post is non-sequitur.
Can you electronically transfer an automobile or does that have to be transfered over a transporation system?
If just about anything can be electronically transfered then why do I drive to work? Why don’t I just electronically transfer myself? I really need to get a job in the bahamas. Go watch some more star trek. I think reality is to much for you to handle.