Ask any democrat if we should abolish the income tax and sales tax, and they will argue with you…and if it came down to it, they would probably take arms against you, to fight for the idea that you and themselves should not be able to keep the fruits of your labor.
Ask any republican and they’d probably fight against you for the same thing…they do not want to be allowed to keep the fruits of their labor.
The majority of Americans are either democrat or republican…so, what do you do when the majority of Americans do not want to be allowed to keep the fruits of their labor? And might even take arms against you to defend the government’s right to take away the fruits of your labor?
“The majority of Americans are either democrat or republican…so, what do you do when the majority of Americans do not want to be allowed to keep the fruits of their labor? And might even take arms against you to defend the government’s right to take away the fruits of your labor?” - limitgov
For one, you need to realize you are incorrect. The majority of Americans aren’t keen on letting other people keep the fruits of their labor. They’re usually not so eager to spread the wealth when it’s their wealth in particular that’s going to be spread. Because other people are always too stingy, not charitable enough, and never pay their ‘fair share’. Whereas those judging other people usually consider themselves model citizens. The amounts they pay in taxes are usually too high, the laws they break aren’t really that important, they give a little more to charity than they really should, etc. Everything is relative… to them, and since they’re top shelf in their own estimation, most everyone else comes up short. I remember studying communism in school, I recall an anecdote the prof told about how the peasants and farmers were so for the revolution until they realized their property was going to get carved up and shared too. Then, all of a sudden, the ideology lost some of its luster for them it seems.
What do you do? Four options:
One, try and separate to a more free society. If none exists or you can’t go for some reason, default to option 2.
Two, try and convince them of their error via education. If it doesn’t work, default to option 3.
Three, facilitate their attempts to spread the wealth and put massive demand on the system. Speed up the system’s inevitable crash and create as many victims of government violence as possible so they can possibly learn from experience and move a bit closer to freedom when the smoke clears.
Four, expell or kill everyone who fails to learn after options 1, 2 and 3 are exhausted.
Right now in the US we’ve passed option 2 for the most part and are moving on to three and perhaps fast tracking to four. I recommend canned food and bottled water.
The majority of people do want to keep the “fruits of their labor”, they just don’t mind taking someone else’s earnings to add to theirs. It’s just like how a thief would complain if something was stolen from him, but he doesn’t complain when he steals from others.
Some people labor under the notion that taxes are like tithes… a moral duty that only scoundrels seek to evade. These are the “patriots” or “nationalists” and form the granite moral foundation of the government’s power. Others are materially ahead because of taxes and will argue in their favor, right or wrong. The rest believe they are materially ahead because of taxes, that is, they are damned fools. These three groups account for probably 99% of the public.
"The majority of Americans aren’t keen on letting other people keep the fruits of their labor. "
Well, if the majority of Americans classify themselves as Democrat or Republican then that is true…they do not want to be allowed to keep the fruits of their labor…
ask any republican or democrat if we should abolish the income tax and the sales tax…they will say NO!
matter of fact…I think they might be willing to take arms against anyone who tried to do that…
Speed up the process. My country has said that it is alright for me to take their money for the sake of my health. Very well. Let no pin-prick go unchecked. If the system falls apart in fifty years, barely anyone will understand why. If it falls apart in five, they will sit up and take notice.
So use the system. Get your government phones, stimuli, and anything else you can. Starve the beast. Convince enough people to do the same, and it will all fall to pieces.
Alternately, we could all get government jobs. It’ll be a hoot when everyone realizes they aren’t getting paid.
Abolishing the income tax would involve a repeal of a constitutional amendment. I might want it to go away but we definitely couldn’t get that done right now. Either way, the Congress is given the power to tax in the constitution. If it isn’t the income tax, it will be something else. Just saying.
what do you do when the majority of Americans do not want to be allowed to keep the fruits of their labor?
They do want to keep the fruits of their labor. They do not mind certain levels of taxation because they recieve something for it. They dont support taxes just for the sake of taxes.
You have to show them how the market can provide the things that the government currently provides. If you cant do that then they will always support taxes.
And might even take arms against you to defend the government’s right to take away the fruits of your labor?
This may not because they are just a bunch of violent thugs. It may be because they feel you are using public goods but not contributing what you “should”. In essence you are stealing.
As long as services are provided by government many people will feel this way.
So again you have to demonstrate that the services provided by the state can be provided by the market. If you can convice people that (at least most) government services are better provided by the market then maybe you will have many that would like to see taxes severely reduced or eliminated.
“They do not mind certain levels of taxation because they recieve something for it.”
they certaintly don’t recieve the equivalent to what was stolen…they accept that they cannot keep the fruits of their labor…some of those fruits go down blackholes…they are ok with this…
matter of fact…they are against the idea of being able to keep the fruits of their labor…they are against anyone who refuses to feed the government
they certaintly don’t recieve the equivalent to what was stolen…they accept that they cannot keep the fruits of their labor…some of those fruits go down blackholes…they are ok with this…
I think they get less than is taken, so I agree with you. But they think they get more than or the equivalent of what is taken. That is the source.
matter of fact…they are against the idea of being able to keep the fruits of their labor…they are against anyone who refuses to feed the government
They are not against the idea of keeping what is earned. They are against free riders. The logic is that you use public roads you should pay taxes to support those roads. Those who dont pay taxes for roads they use are stealing from the rest of us.
They are willing to use force against those who are percieved to be stealing.
They are against those who refuse to feed government not for the sake of feeding government but because government provides things. They see it the same way as a company provides things. You have to pay in exchange for the things a private company provides, so you have to pay for what the government provides.
Im not saying thier perceptions are correct, only that your characterization may be a bit off the mark.
You certainly do, but answer me this - who do you think is better at state-aided pilfering, the “average Joe” or the well-connected, well-funded billionaire? I think the multi-trillion dollar bank bailout in the US and now the EU indisputably settles this question. The iron law of oligarchy is that in any area of human endeavor, there emerge elites who are better at what they do than everybody else. These people inevitably rise to the top and dominate the field. This is as true in politics and special-interest lobbying as it is in industry, sports or anything else. The union bosses turn the envy and avarice of their membership into a platinum revenue stream straight into their own pocket. The elected representatives do sweetheart land deals, financial deals etc. in exchange for political favors, converting their clout as a “man of the people” into dollars in their pocket. Those that don’t play this game quickly get run out of office by those who will.
Bastiat said it best:
Never has it happened that the many plunder the few. Progressivism, in this sense (and all others, too), is a pipe-dream.
But you said yourself…they support the idea of government taking from them by force)…
Thats not exactly what I said. I said they support the idea of paying for goods and services which are provided by government. Most pay thier taxes voluntarily, so the idea that they are ok with the government taking from them by force is false. The tea parties seem to indicate that a significant number of people are not ok with government taxing them and then giving the money to well connected bankers instead of spending it on public goods. In other words people are not ok with well connected, powerful people using government force to steal from them.