“The Dreaming” is another example of revealed religion and as such it is collectivistic - I would never claim otherwise. By revealed religion I don’t just mean “Christianity - Judaism - Islam” but any organized religion whose tenets can’t be proved…
but there are unrevealed religions that can be proved? or is ‘revealed’ irrelevant to your argument?
Heh. Of course no revealed religion can ever be proven, since revealed religion is just-made up stuff. That’s why preachers who can’t prove their claims invoke faith…
There’s also deism which is a more philosophical approach to supernatural problems, although deistic claims can’t ultimately be proven either. But at least deists try to base their conclusions on reason, not on faith and hearsay.
I don’t understand the push to turn stupidity and cognitive error into illegitimate crime. maybe we should just stop there. you understand it, i dont.
I didn’t mention crime and I wasn’t talking about the legality of the issue. I never said that preaching religion X is something to be dealt with in legal terms, so there’s no such push. I’m only saying that people who talk about the supernatural as if they really knew something about it are not honest.
ok, enough then. we aren’t even discussing it any more 
I would like to meet just one person who does not fit like a glove into all criteria for either “cultural conservative” or “cultural liberal”. How utterly weakminded to just roll over and manufacture one’s identity by copy and paste.
I don’t fit neatly into either box.
I agree with cultural conservatives on things like natural law,importance of family /monogamy,need for objective morality, pro corporal punishment ,Believe in hierarchy & authority ,critical of multicultural aka cultural relativism, opposed to political correctness ,opposed to hedonism/skepticism/nihilism/relativism/ post-modernism , willing to accept men and women are quite different but not inferior or superior etc
but then i agree with cultural liberals in that i’m atheist though not militantly so ,I’m pro-choice in abortion, pro gay rights,Pro Individualist feminism i.e. wendy mcelroy,have a wider conception of morality and sexuality than conservatives,open to ‘counterculture’ in music & some art- though i’m not into art for arts sake or post modern art, consider myself something of a cosmopolitan and am opposed to sexism ,racism- which i consider to be a social construct- and homophobia - which i consider to be genetic(though i’m not denying conservatives can and are opposed to these things too too) .
On the religion issue i’m not sure anymore whether religion is immoral or not. My views have changed alot over the years on it. When i was younger i was a christian then became atheist then indifferent atheist then discovered objectivism and became a militant atheist and now after discovering rothbard lew etc i’m just happy being atheist. These days i recognize that religious people can be good moral people despite the fact i disagree with their beliefs in god or morality.I also see that religion is in many cases the enemy of government.Remember government has killed more people in the 20th century than the major religious conflicts and killing periods have.probably government’s killed more than religion ever has.
Religions have lots to offer in terms of wisdom and poetry of the language.You can take an interest in the ideas without necessarily believing in god.personally i quite like david lipscomb and thomas aquinas.If you dismiss religion you leave out alot of history and intelligent thought.
You forget all the worst governments were/are theistic in nature. Aquinas is fine considering the time he was around, but it’s not like all his ideas are purely a Christian ideal. It all depends on which ideas we’re talking about.
I do not find any importance in determining if a person is “moral”, it’s only a matter if a particular action is good or bad, i.e. moral or not moral. So a religious person could be a decent person but simply be misguided; and they’re probably misguided because of all the things Juan has posted in this thread. Religion is really just poison for the mind; it should be avoided.