So I’ve heard the claim “it is impossible to have capitalism without government” before, but I don’t understand it. Who wants to explain the claim to me? I’m offering cake.
The thinking is that without the state property rights won’t be protected. This is also the reasoning behind the concept that rich people benefit from the state more than poor people.
They’re both sort of silly ideas.
Animal spirits?
Minarchists claim this to “prove” that you need a “night watchman” state in order to protect property rights.
Social democrats claim this to “prove” that you need an extensive “safety net” in order to make sure the proletariat won’t revolt.
Thanks for the replies.
Unfortunately I think any argument against the claim would be laughed at. “What, the market would protect private property? Ha!”
That’s a circular argument. They are saying that market won’t provide protection because the market won’t provide protection.
They’d probably go into some spiel about how the market can’t be trusted to provide the essential services that only the government can provide.
Gotta love 'em.
Which would open the ‘argument’ to the devastatingly simple Hoppean critique: how than, was the state first created?! Dear, not by a covenant, sure, as people do not respect covenants, which is the very first argument they made!oppean critiqueHo And even if somehow the state was created, why do people who where not alive still cring to the contract, if they so much long for a ‘war of all against all’? And indeed what gives the state any power whatsoever? Not violence as when enough people make up their mind, even the most ‘powerful’ state withers away (socialism in 1990, especially and the Russian coup). So it must be…that they agree to obey the state?! But how come, if people naturally long for disorder, chaos, eating babies and wiping their behind with Bible pages and all of that.
Shortly, the state would not be possible at all without people being anarchists deep down. See how they respond to that.
That was all very confusing. Care to rephrase? lol
Well, let’s think about why the market can’t produce some things, such as defense, justice and the like.
The minarchist argument goes that, in absence of a state monopoly, people just fly at each-other’s throat, blood thirsty, and disregard every norm, property rights being one such norm. Thus, statelessness would lead to chaos, and hence the state is needed to set the ‘framework’ for a market to function. After such a framework has been set, the market does everything else fine. Now that is patently absurd.
IF people themselves swill not forma stable and peaceful society, why oh why, would they form any such thing as a state?
States certainly do not rule by force, but rather by consent (or passive resignation) of the vast majority. The vast majority just cannot be coerced into doing anything: whatever it does is voluntary! So, by giving legitimacy to the state and agree to follow its rules, the majority actually shows that it is capable of 1) wanting peace and justice and 2) willingly limiting their impulses to allow for civilization. So, they need no state at all! Indeed, no such thing as the Hobsean (or Misesian!) leviathan can even exist.
If the Hobsean war of all against all was a reality, people would never agree to bow to the state, and would just go on endlessly pillaging and looting, burning cities and butchering police. Nothing would prevent them from doing so. So, the mianrchist position is absurd to say the very least.
So to summarize, the statist claim (I don’t think it matters whether minarchists or big-gov types claim it) is that without a government, society would fall into chaos and violence. However, if that is true, government would never have come into existance because people would be too busy killing each other off instead of coming together to form a state. And that just isn’t true. Correct?
Maybe the thing I’m wonder is: Why did they create a state? If they can live peacefully and not kill each other, why create a state?
Maybe you explained that and I missed it? I’m having a serious brain-fart right now lol.
My own theory is in the link in my sig.