Capital Chapter 1

Marx starts by telling us what we will be investigating and later critiquing.

“The wealth of those societies in which the capitalist mode of production prevails, presents itself as “an immense accumulation of commodities,” its unit being a single commodity.”

Here he also defines Capitalism. This is more usually known as “Generalised commodity production”

Then we start analysing what IS a Commodity exactly? Throughout this chapter he tells us that a commodity is an average sample of its class, and that it has a two-fold character.

Commodities have both use-values (they are useful objects) and exchange-value. I’ll start by talking about use-value.

Use-value is often referred to by Marx as qualitative. It is the physical properties of a commodity, Marx also tells us that use-values are what constitute the “substance of wealth.” Marx also mentions how an increase in material wealth corresponds with a DECREASE in exchange-value, this has its origin in the dual-nature of a commodity.

Exchange-value is what makes a commodity a commodity, nearly everything has some use-value, but not everything has an exchange-value, so, what is it? Exchange-value exists only when commodities stand in relation to one another. It is the proportion in which the two commodities exchange. Since use-value is everything that is the physical, exchange-value cannot be. Exchange-value is characterised as being quantitative, and an abstraction from use-value (with no use-value there is no exchange-value).

Marx talks about the dual-nature of labour as well, with concrete specific labour giving rise to use-value (tailors make use-value of clothing for warmth). He says that abstract labour is the source of value, and his proofs for this are two-fold.

First he says that if x linen = y coat, then both linen and coat must be reducible to a third something, something which cannot be part of its physical traits. He proceeds to show this as being abstract labour. My preferred proof is this.

The idea that labour is the substance of value comes out more clearly when we examine the historical preconditions for the existence of value relations. For individuals to produce exchange-values, the products they produce must be use-values not to themselves but to other individuals, that is, social use-values. Labour which creates social use-values is social labour, and presupposes a social division of labour which forces individuals to rely on the production of society to satisfy their needs. However, only in certain instances of the social division of labour do the products of society appear as exchangeable values. These instances are where the various branches of the social division of labour carry out production independently of one another and for private account. In such instances, the products of labour become social through the medium of the value-form. Value serves as the substance which undertakes the natural necessity common to every society of apportioning out the labour-time of society to different branches of production in order to serve social wants. As the medium through which labour becomes social labour, we can see clearly that the essence of value is labour. In fact, to say that labour is the substance of value becomes a tautology, which is equivalent to saying that the substance of social labour is social labour.

Marx uses an example in his text to demonstrate something about value, that as production capabilities go up so that it takes half the time to produce a commodity, the commodity becomes worth half as much, this is because less human-labour time is needed.

Marx talks about 3 different forms value can take, the elementary, the expanded and the general.

The elementary has two parts. X linen (relative) = Y coats (equivalent)

The linen relatively expresses its value in the use-value of coats.

Marx expands this to show the origin of money in that all other commodities take the place of the relative role in this equation, and one other commodity becomes the equivalent, and thus money.

Your lesson has inspired me, Pizza von Marx; I’m going to go to the Catholic.org forum and start a weekly lecture on chapters of The Satanic Bible.

If you do that, please PM me the links to your threads.

What a shock, when confronted with what Marx actually said, you guys have nothing to say. Namely because there are no strawmen here to tear down.

“Marx uses an example in his text to demonstrate something about value, that as production capabilities go up so that it takes half the time to produce a commodity, the commodity becomes worth half as much, this is because less human-labour time is needed.”

It doesn’t work this way. There’s no exact equivalence between the reduction in time it takes to produce something and its value. Value is always subjective. While the reduced time input will definitely make it cheaper, at least in the long run, there are other factors that could cause a particular good to actually rise in price even if the time it takes to produce that thing goes down.

I mean what do you expect to happen anyways? There’s not a whole lot that is that controversial in this section. Is it convoluted? Yes, it definitely is.

In this particular section, Marx is assuming all other things being equal. All other things being equal, if something costs less time to produce, it will be cheaper.

Value is not subjective as I have shown in the OP.

Value is a social relationship between isolated individuals. They both want the commodity another person has. The relationship their commodities enter into with one another is a value relationship.

The first three chapters are the hardest I’ll give you that, but then why is no one asking questions? And isn’t the whole value question quite controversial between our two respective camps?

It’s a Sunday evening on a holiday weekend in the US. Don’t get ahead of yourself.

Where did you show that?

On to your summary:

Err, could you expand on this? I don’t understand what you/Marx mean. What’s the significance of saying x linen = y coat? Why must they “be reducible to a third something”? Are you trying to explain the source of exchange-value, or explaining why use-value is derived from labor? I assume the latter, but I don’t understand this chain of the argument. Why can’t the use-value of the coat simply be the warmth it provides, rather than how much labor was mixed with the linen? Why do we need the third something?

…Are all of these distinctions useful? This kind of stuff seems convoluted not because it’s complex, but because much of it seems unnecessary. I assume it becomes useful later, but none of it seems necessary for explaining use-value, or the objectivity of value, or what determines exchange-value.

Aren’t you admitting, then, that labor is the source of value because you define it as such? Where is the actual proof that labor determines “value?” This whole paragraph reads to me like you/Marx getting lost in the intricacies of your own argument and fuzzy distinctions.

Again, how do you determine this cause? Why can’t it be due for some other reason, such as the diminishing marginal utility of each additional coat? Or are the coats worth half as much because you define worth as the amount of labor used to produce it, thus returning to the circular argument above?

I also have to ask what you mean by “worth”. You/Marx bring up the distinction between use-value and exchange-value, yet you neglected to use it here. Is the exchange-value cut in half, or the (presumably objective) use-value? I assume you mean the exchange-value drops while the use-value stays the same, and so there is an increase in material wealth. But again, if that is so, I’m not sure what this has to do with anything, particularly the objectivity of value or labor as the source of value.

My apologies, forgot about that

The comparison Marx uses is that of comparing the weights of different objects. Weight, as an abstract property is what is being compared between say, a rock and a pillow. Now, in order to compare the weights of these two things, we must first know how much they weigh by comparing them to a third thing, a known standard of weight.

Value as an abstract property is what is being compared between x linen = y coat. The ratio at which they exchange is their respective exchange-value’s.

The use-value of a coat IS just the warmth that it provides. It has to deal with the specific labour though. It takes a tailor to make a coat. But any type of abstract labour can produce an object of value.

If you have further questions on this subject let me know.

Incredibly useful. The conditions laid out here MUST exist in order for value relations to exist. It’s not meant to talk about use-value, it’s meant to discuss the conditions under which exchange-value (or value at all) come to rise in a generalised setting.

That’s PRECISELY the case atually. Every human society has a need to distribute human labour somehow, under Capitalism social labour takes the form of value. Value is merely the relationship that allows exchange to occur.

Sorry I should clarify, whenever I want to talk about use-value I will specifically say use-value, otherwise it should be considered as dealing with abstract Value as in the social relationship.

Right now this cause is tautological, we define it as such. But later we shall see how the monetary expression of value, price, comes into play here. We do not hold that Value is the same as Price*. Value is our abstract defined social relationship which functions perfectly in theory. Price is the actual relationship that exists. Though I will note that, we are assuming all things equal, so there is no diminishing marginal utility.

  • We DO hold that total Price = total Value though, but we’re getting WAY ahead of ourselves now.

So the use value is only relevant in regard to things which satisfy human wants, no? But if all that is counted in the valuation of these commodities is their “masses of congealed labour time,” the valuation disregards the degree of satisfaction. It places a binary 0 or 1 multiplier of value on the satisfaction component and the rest of the calculation is left up to labour input. I see this as problematic. Something which takes 8 hours per unit to make, but only provides as much satisfaction as a pencil, is not of equal value as something which takes 8 hours per unit to make, but provides as much satisfaction as a computer.

Correct, use-value is everythnig about a commodity that is physical, or more properly as you termed it, satisfies human wants.

Value has nothing to do with satisfaction.

In light of the fact that the 4th is coming up, I’m going to just leave this topic for discussion and not post the next one until july 5th. I also won’t be posting more topics on Sundays.

@ pizza

first off, welcome. despite your jab at us earlier, I still find it awesome that you want to include us in your book-study sessions.

my biggest concern is when you say these two things.

“Correct, use-value is everythnig about a commodity that is physical, or more properly as you termed it, satisfies human wants.”

“Value has nothing to do with satisfaction.”

Can you explain, in your own words, how this is not a contradiction?

Value and use-value are different categories simply enough. It’s not a contradiction because it is referring to different things. Use-value’s have ALWAYS existed. Value only exists in certain conditions.

I apologise if I seemed overly hostile at first.

How do you prove that there are two kinds of values that are completely separate and not part of the same thing, that is just value? Why is it a useful distinction to make and not just convenient for Marx’s argument?

As my last post said, use-value has always existed, Value has not. It’s a useful distinction to make because, use-value doesn’t really factor into exchange, other than as a binary qualifier as someone else pointed out. Value on the other hand determines a lot more about exchange.

Use-value has existed as long as value has. Why, in your view, is one prior to the other? What proof or argument do you have for it?

Also, I don’t think you understood at all what the other poster was saying about binary qualifiers. I’ll let them try to explain it to you. How does use-value not factor into exchange? What definition of exchange are you using? Do you have a glossary for all of these Marxian definitions of these terms?

We have defined Value already, so we can see how your first sentence is false.

Use-value is prior to Value because the conditions to give rise to Value relations did not exist then.

You already said that use-value was prior to value did you not? Your words, “use-value has always existed, value has not.” Then you just said, “Value is prior to use-value…” My first sentence is not false because use-value is just as abstract as value in general is.

Use-value does not factor into exchange simply because it refers to the actual characteristics of a Commodity. The features OF a Commodity say nothing of how it will exchange. If there are 60 billion cars on the market you can expect them to be dirt cheap regardless of their qualities.

Exchange as in a quid pro quo type thing. We’ll deal with these definitions as we encounter them in Capital. Marx defines them as we go.

Did you read the chapter?