Who will do the dirty work in Socialism? Since as you said, if a person wants to be a teacher, in socialism they get to be a teacher. I’m pretty sure that not everyone dreams of being a Garbage man.
If they were to see that, it would be because they are looking in the wrong direction. Individuals being subordinate to the needs of the collective is a feature of our past, found in primitive human cultures. Respecting the worth of the individual is the great attribute of the modern age.
I think that overall, you’re barking up the wrong tree. Essentially you argument boils down to this: Capitalists are exploiting workers because their earnings are too high and the workers wages are too low.
sidenote: wages are not the takehome pay of a worker, but the cost to the firm of employing that worker. This includes things like overtime pay, payed breaks, vacation, ect.
Their employers are giving them a higher wage than they would receive elsewhere, ceteris parabus. If workers are being exploited (according to your definition) by their employers, it is less so than by everyone else, for nobody other than the employer is paying them anything (including you).
Also, since the computer you are using is has components which were produced by corporations which have rich CEO’s (I’m assuming, however it is a very reasonable assumption), your actions demonstrate that you prefer that these CEO’s get their private jets, golf, and tropical getaways to them not getting any perks. Otherwise you wouldn’t patronize companies which pay CEO’s large saleries, or at least you don’t put your money where your mouth is.I am sure you probably eat at fast food joints every now and then, use an internet service provided by a large corp, purchase things @ discount stores like Walmart, ect.
Labour is a factor of production who’s price is determined, ultimately, by consumer demand. Whether they are too high or too low is an entirely arbitrary value judgment. Also, if you support the current arrangement, through your current consumer spending, it seems rather hypocritical to turn around and condemn the results.
Actually, I do think that. Its ridiculous that someone should have to fill out 20-30 applications and get no luck. How is everyone going to be able to survive and pull through if there are 100 jobs available, 70 which are taken, and 60 people who need jobs. This is the distortion in the market I am referring to.
What did the CEO ever do to build the machine, which he sold for a lot more then what the workers did to produce it? The CEO then gets the net profit of that, while the workers who built it get only 1/500 portion. A machine can’t be built by a single man, it needs to be built by a group, labor workers. A machine built by labor workers is better then one built by an individual anyway.
Its shitty human nature. I described earlier, part of how human nature works if I had cancer, it would be better that I die and suffer. I know someone who has a life threatening illness, and nobody is doing anything about it. Health Care probably wont get the correct solution in his lifetime.
Assuming that the rich didn’t pillage to get THEIR money.
Our current society oppresses people who have different interests and destinies. People have an attitude that people who don’t want to be part of the Education system deserve to fail. I was in a discussion on education on my English class, and I mentioned a situation where a student drops out of school because he was involuntarily drugged, dealt with authority he disliked, and hated being forced to learn what he was learning. The others I was discussing this with said “Too bad for him then! he deserves to fail, we need to raise our countries standards”.
This is what our society is built on, its not inhumane, quit frankly it is FUCKED. Our destinies are chosen for us for the benefit of other people. I don’t have a future, there’s nothing in this world for me, most of it was taken from me. A society based on rational self interest is neo-fascism. If society, and communities got together to address the concerns of everyone within the community, they would then create a framework to serve the best interests of the community.
Someone may not have the motivation to go to school or to learn, so if someone is better at laboring, then they can take out the Garbage. If they are disabled, partially insane, severely learning disabled, ect they can take out the garbage and have a role for the community, as opposed to just rotting as they would now because they don’t want to/can’t live up to the destinies that were decided for them. Society has been conditioned to this way, as I mentioned from my interraction with people in my English class discussion on Education, to think anyone that doesn’t meet what is rationalized by the state to be in “everyone’s best interest” or “whats best for us all” is to be sent to the guillotine. Most people support this absolutely fucked society, and because of their ignorance I have to suffer for it, even if I know the truth. Democracy is EVIL. This majority rule bullshit, isn’t free of tyranny at all, its just as Nietczhe put it in his quote about groups with the same opinions, epochs, or something of the like being more insane then the individual(I can’t find the quote).
May I ask that you rewrite your rant to remove it of the ad hominems, appeals to envy, non sequiturs, hasty generalizations, labor theory of values, and all the other fallacies?
This all seems quite emotive.
Anyway, Novus, you are correct to say that in a free and open society a freer market would not fix some of the things you seem to see as problematic, like too many millionaires. Yes in a free society there would probably be more millionaires and CEOs may earn disproportionatly more.
However, if you allow people to trade anything freely, smarter, more productive people will be better off. However, that doesn’t mean that everyone will be worse off since most trades will be mutually benificial. That is not to say that all profit making is good. That is why capitalism need rules to enforce contract to prevent fraud, theft and deceit. Rather than look only at inequality and envy.
Profits, like all pricesin the free-price system, are vital to the efficent allocation of scarce resources. Mess with profits and you mess with economic calculation.
The point is that the market is more productive which essentially means more stuff. If I get more pieces of paper to trade with under a freer capitalistic system than you, it may seem unfair, but it does not neccesarilly mean that you get less stuff, if there is more to begin with. I think you need to look at the plight of the average man under a system of free market capitalism vs. a socialist one.
How will everyone survive and pull through? Capital formation. Eliminate barriors to entry. Eliminate the income tax. For starters. But our overseers in D.C. are doing the exact opposite. And things are going to get much worse as a result (there is no recovery going on, by the way, unless a temporary bounce in the stock market is considered “recovery”).
He organizes the capital. (Actually, the entrepreneur and capitalists do this, but you are fixated on CEO’s)
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Exactly. And if the machine did not sell for more than what the workers did to produce it, would the capital ever have been directed into that line of production to begin with? It would not have been. There would have been no jobs at all for the workers. Profit is a price signal. It directs capital.
And how much should the workers get? How much would they get if there was no capital from which to start the business?
So, let’s jetison the CEO. Make an edict: “No more CEO’s”. You refer to “CEO’s” but what about the entrepreneur? What about the capitalist? Are they one in the same? Would it be best to just have laborers overseen by a central planner? Is this the solution? If you say “yes”, then please see the links below.
Profit is a price signal. It directs capital into lines production where is it needed. The consumers (in a free market) determine “where” the capital is needed (market prices provide the signals).
Novus, please watch this video. It explains the reality of the socialist world you envision: The Road to Serfdom.
Here’s two novels for you: Pictures of Our Socialist Future (1893) Time Will Run Back
Democracy, majority rules. If the majority supports what D.C is doing, then it will be so.
Oh, and my polisci professor always argued against me that the income tax pays for services that help people, and it wouldn’t be enough money otherwise. So if don’t want to pay taxes, then we don’t care about helping people, but whatever.
Bookmarked for later.
The “fact” that CEO’s make more than they could ever spend simply means that they are not competing for the limited supply of consumer goods. Perhaps they use it as stuffing for pillows and mattresses. Perhaps they invest it to increase the supply of consumer goods.
A pity it’s nonsense, and shallow propaganda at that.
To be honest, all I’m getting out of your posts is that you desire to use violence in order to obtain a better standard of living for yourself.
and off to revleft you go!
But I can’t blame him for preferring fake socialism to fascism
You guys should check out this thread of an AnCap invading RevLeft
What about it? And why do you say “invading”? You haven’t succumbed to RevLeft’s nonsense, have you?
Isn’t competing “non violently” a pipe dream? It’s like for Socialism to work people have to be selfless and have a lack of ambition. Both disregard basic human characteristics… aggression is a part of who we are.
Yeah?
Do you have a link to what Mises pointed out? I’d like to check it.
Thanks [Y]
I’m saying we should go there, make accounts, and see if we can make a mark on RevLeft. They discussing Anarcho-Capitalism a lot recently, this is our chance to win them over. Perhaps, even hurt the ideology of socialism big time..
Why should anyone bother trying to win socialists over? The allure of getting something for nothing is just too great for the majority of people to reject.